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Biodiesel in a 2005 Ram 3500?

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Old 12-17-2005 | 06:05 PM
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Biodiesel in a 2005 Ram 3500?

Hi everyone, someone on the rv.net forum said that we are not allowed to use biodiesel in the Cummins engine of the Dodge Rams except in a 5% blend. I would like to know if this is the correct CURRENT statement by Cummins. Does anyone know? If it is, it makes me sick. I think it's important to support alternative and less harmful sources of fuel.

Thanks, Eileen
Old 12-17-2005 | 08:05 PM
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That is correct........................ 5% only.
Old 12-17-2005 | 11:20 PM
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I think that the 5% is for WO, waste motor oil drained from your crankcase, not biodiesel. There was a thread about it a while ago, look it up, a lot of people seem to use it, some use it in ratios higher than 5%. As far as I know, unless something has changed, there is no reason why you cannot use biodiesel 100 in your truck.
Old 12-18-2005 | 11:23 AM
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Cummins recommends no higher than 5% Biodiesel in the HPCR engines.

Member infidel posted on here that he was involved with intensive testing with biodiesel, and he found that with the HPCR engines in the 2003's on up you should use no more than 20% Biodiesel (B20) in them.

The high pressure fuel injection pump causes the Bio to get 'stringy' and then plug up fuel filters.
B20 will work with normal filter mileage replacements. Higher concentrations will cause accelerated filter changes. Running plugged up filters will cause performance degradation, and could harm the high pressure pump and injectors.

No problem with running B100 on the VP-44 pump or P7100 pump engines.

Since most on-road diesels are built today with HPCR engines, is this why the Biodiesel market is not taking off too quickly?

EDIT: If you go to the "General" forum, there is a 'hidden' sub-forum at the top of the page for Biodiesel threads. Check it out!
Old 12-18-2005 | 01:43 PM
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Cummins also stated in that letter that the reason they are going with 5% is the quality control of making Bio standards need to be established before going to a higher blend.
Old 12-18-2005 | 05:19 PM
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Roadranger is correct except that we've found no problems running up to B50 in a HPCR.
Anything more and you are tempting fate. It all depends on which kind of plant oil the BD is made from, something that is hard for the user to control and have knowledge of. Soy BD is the worst for clogging things up and unfortunately the most widely available. With B100 none of engines made it over 1000 miles before the filters clogged up.
Old 12-18-2005 | 11:15 PM
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Thanks everyone. Someone said this:

No problem with running B100 on the VP-44 pump or P7100 pump engines.

What kind of truck (or something else) has this pump and pump engine?

I know a filter costs about $38 at the dealer. I think we are supposed to change it every 12,000-15,000 miles (this is what I remember). I'm not sure how I would "control" for 50% biodiesel, but if I manage to do this, is it OK to change the fuel filter every 12,000 to 15,000 miles? Do I have to change it more quickly?

Thanks, Eileen
Old 12-19-2005 | 05:58 AM
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P7100 is 94-98 dodge
VP-44 is 98.5-2002 dodge
Buy the fuel filters from cummins. My most expensive filer is $16 there. You would have to check the service manual for fuel filter replacement intervals. Right now I personally change the fuel filter every other oil change with oil changes at 5000 miles.
Old 12-19-2005 | 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by eileeneh
Thanks everyone. Someone said this:

No problem with running B100 on the VP-44 pump or P7100 pump engines.

What kind of truck (or something else) has this pump and pump engine?

I know a filter costs about $38 at the dealer. I think we are supposed to change it every 12,000-15,000 miles (this is what I remember). I'm not sure how I would "control" for 50% biodiesel, but if I manage to do this, is it OK to change the fuel filter every 12,000 to 15,000 miles? Do I have to change it more quickly?

Thanks, Eileen
You should be able to go 12-15k or even longer if you don't exceed 50% bio. Cutting the BD with diesel changes the way it reacts to the high temps and pressures in an HPCR.
Old 12-19-2005 | 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by infidel
Roadranger is correct except that we've found no problems running up to B50 in a HPCR.
Anything more and you are tempting fate. It all depends on which kind of plant oil the BD is made from, something that is hard for the user to control and have knowledge of. Soy BD is the worst for clogging things up and unfortunately the most widely available. With B100 none of engines made it over 1000 miles before the filters clogged up.
Thanks for the insight.

I don't follow it very close, but there are many VW Tdi running B100. Isn't that a HPCR system? I have gone to presentations by one of these guys, running 100% soy during the summer, and no mention of any issues.
Old 12-19-2005 | 12:56 PM
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My understanding is that Tdi's have been having problems with B100.
Once again it depends on what the BD is made from.
I know a lot of Tdi owners make their own BD, most often from deep fryer oil which is rarely soy. Perhaps they've lucked out.
Old 12-19-2005 | 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnCA58
Cummins also stated in that letter that the reason they are going with 5% is the quality control of making Bio standards need to be established before going to a higher blend.
can you point me to this letter. I did a search on cummins.com and nothing like this.
Old 12-19-2005 | 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Childofthewind
can you point me to this letter. I did a search on cummins and nothing like this.
http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/O...EM_cummins.pdf
Old 12-19-2005 | 11:57 PM
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To me, this sounds like a laundry list of any bad thing any researcher ever saw testing pre ASTM spec B100, and Cummins doing a cover our rear caution.
Interesting, but many of the issues may have been resolved, or not be issues at moderate blend levels.
I note that this is out of date, as the final ASTM spec had not been issued at the time it was written. It seems that if you get fuel that meets the ASTM spec you should be OK, at least to B50 in a newer vehicles. Some problems have come up from out of spec fuel, or from storage or contanimation issues. That's where the quailty control issue comes in, and needs to improve.
The national biodiesel board seems to promote B2-B20 blends, that sounds like a good starting point for me.
Old 12-20-2005 | 10:06 AM
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This quote from the CEO of one of largest BD producers in the nation might put things in perspective.

In our enthusiasm to promote biodiesel, we often make claims like "performs exactly like petro diesel" etc. Clearly, this is not the case. Chemically, Biodiesel is an approximation of diesel fuel. In some situations, like running older generation diesels in warm weather, it is a pretty good approximation in terms of performance characteristics. In other situations, like running an '04 Cummins in cold weather, its performance characteristics are not at all a good approximation.

Boulder Biodiesel has put much of its efforts into promoting biodiesel and particularly B100 as a viable alternative to petro diesel. But the reality that biodiesel is not a straight substitute for diesel is one we can no longer ignore. The problems associated with biodiesel's differences from petro diesel will only grow as more new generation vehicles hit the road. Biodiesel and those who actively support it will start losing credibility.

We need to acknowledge this reality that biodiesel is not yet a substitute for petro diesel. From all my investigations into this subject, it seems clear that the solution to this issue is chemistry. Biodiesel must be changed so that it better mimics petro diesel in terms of performance characteristics. Here is an opportunity for someone or some organization to really make a difference: Do the research and experimentation necessary to develop additives or some other way to alter the chemical makeup biodiesel so that it performs more like petro diesel. Then we really could claim that it "works just like diesel" and "can be used in any diesel vehicle." Only then will biodiesel be able to catch on as a viable alternative fuel.


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