13 injectors in less than a year and a half
08-11-2010, 01:22 PM
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13 injectors in less than a year and a half
This is long but bear with me...
I'm at a loss as to what to do with my truck. The dealer has, up to this point, put 13 injectors in it in less than a year and a half. The last time around it left me in Vegas. The truck has 77k on it currently.
So the deal is that I just got it back from the dealer last week, where they sent all 6 injectors to a Bosch testing facility in Oregon. I was out a truck for 2 weeks while they tested them, but honestly if its going to leave me somewhere its not worth it to drive it. The report came back that 5 out of the 6 were bad, 4 failed for either contamination issues or worn seats (ironically they can't tell the difference), 1 failed electrically, and the only good one was the one they had put in less than a month before.
The thing is I've always used OEM Mopar or Fleetguard filters on this truck, never anything that isn't recommended by Cummins. I change the filter at the very most every 15k miles. I put a brand new filter in it right after they put the injector that tested good in it, about 2 months ago, and less than 3k miles. You'll see in my signature that I've got a Smarty, I never run it above level 3 because my clutch won't handle it, and I've never run it with anything but factory rail pressure.
So the service manager has been working with me and the factory rep. He got the factory rep to agree to put all 6 injectors in the truck after the 5 failed the tests at Bosch. Unfortunately, as you all probably know, they put remans in as they say "new isn't available."
So this morning, 4 days after I get the truck back from the dealer, I notice a shuttering when driving down the road at lower speeds. The truck idles fine and when I get on it, it runs and sounds like it should. There is a little injector noise but i expected as much from remans. I got to work, put it in neutral, and revved it up slowly. There is a definite missfire in at least 1 of the cylinders.
I've requested a meeting with the factory rep, as well as the Cummins rep (probably won't happen with Cummins). I haven't gotten an answer back from anyone yet. I'm tempted to start a class action lawsuit, as this has become the very definition of insanity. Anyone on board??
You buy a Cummins because of their superior power, longevity, reliability, and efficiency. So far, I've had no experience in any of these realms. My truck has been in the shop more than a Ford, and I'm seriously thinking of walking across the street and buying a Duramax.
I welcome all comments, concerns and testimonials.
I'm at a loss as to what to do with my truck. The dealer has, up to this point, put 13 injectors in it in less than a year and a half. The last time around it left me in Vegas. The truck has 77k on it currently.
So the deal is that I just got it back from the dealer last week, where they sent all 6 injectors to a Bosch testing facility in Oregon. I was out a truck for 2 weeks while they tested them, but honestly if its going to leave me somewhere its not worth it to drive it. The report came back that 5 out of the 6 were bad, 4 failed for either contamination issues or worn seats (ironically they can't tell the difference), 1 failed electrically, and the only good one was the one they had put in less than a month before.
The thing is I've always used OEM Mopar or Fleetguard filters on this truck, never anything that isn't recommended by Cummins. I change the filter at the very most every 15k miles. I put a brand new filter in it right after they put the injector that tested good in it, about 2 months ago, and less than 3k miles. You'll see in my signature that I've got a Smarty, I never run it above level 3 because my clutch won't handle it, and I've never run it with anything but factory rail pressure.
So the service manager has been working with me and the factory rep. He got the factory rep to agree to put all 6 injectors in the truck after the 5 failed the tests at Bosch. Unfortunately, as you all probably know, they put remans in as they say "new isn't available."
So this morning, 4 days after I get the truck back from the dealer, I notice a shuttering when driving down the road at lower speeds. The truck idles fine and when I get on it, it runs and sounds like it should. There is a little injector noise but i expected as much from remans. I got to work, put it in neutral, and revved it up slowly. There is a definite missfire in at least 1 of the cylinders.
I've requested a meeting with the factory rep, as well as the Cummins rep (probably won't happen with Cummins). I haven't gotten an answer back from anyone yet. I'm tempted to start a class action lawsuit, as this has become the very definition of insanity. Anyone on board??
You buy a Cummins because of their superior power, longevity, reliability, and efficiency. So far, I've had no experience in any of these realms. My truck has been in the shop more than a Ford, and I'm seriously thinking of walking across the street and buying a Duramax.
I welcome all comments, concerns and testimonials.
08-11-2010, 01:37 PM
#2
DTR Detective
You're going to get a lot of you play you pay comments.
I took off my Quad when I lost 2 injectors in a month span, I'm sure it was a fuel issue and a misdiagnosis of which injector, but until I get my 2 micron set-up the Quad stays off.
I took off my Quad when I lost 2 injectors in a month span, I'm sure it was a fuel issue and a misdiagnosis of which injector, but until I get my 2 micron set-up the Quad stays off.
08-11-2010, 02:21 PM
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What do you mean by "injector noise"? Is it hard starting? May not be contamination just worn. With ulsd good idea to run a conditioner with a lubricant year round, the fuel has no lubricity at all.
08-11-2010, 02:39 PM
#7
4 failed for either contamination issues or worn seats.
Did you see the actual report from the test facility?
Something seems to be fishy about this siutation. Get a fuel sample from your truck pre and post filter most Cummins and or Cat shops will have sample bottle for around $30. I perfer Cat SOS services.
Worn seats due to manufacutre defects is noticable, the same for worn seats from contamination. They both look different and both have the same outcome. You will probelly be out of pocket as dealerships work that way.
I would be very leary of one failed electronically and the rest were internal. I dealt with this on my 2003 where I went through injectors like no bodys business. They kept having internal failures corrosion build up and seat failures. turns out my injectors were working intermittantly and causing corrosion to form due to not functioning properly. I only had two that would do this on a regular basis, but electrical failures can cause premature wear by not functioing properly and allowing the parts to be fully opened or closed causing erosion in the internal parts.
They were not rusty inside but were pitted from erossion.
Good luck and get those fuel samples and pay for it yourself. that way it is independant from the dealership.
Did you see the actual report from the test facility?
Something seems to be fishy about this siutation. Get a fuel sample from your truck pre and post filter most Cummins and or Cat shops will have sample bottle for around $30. I perfer Cat SOS services.
Worn seats due to manufacutre defects is noticable, the same for worn seats from contamination. They both look different and both have the same outcome. You will probelly be out of pocket as dealerships work that way.
I would be very leary of one failed electronically and the rest were internal. I dealt with this on my 2003 where I went through injectors like no bodys business. They kept having internal failures corrosion build up and seat failures. turns out my injectors were working intermittantly and causing corrosion to form due to not functioning properly. I only had two that would do this on a regular basis, but electrical failures can cause premature wear by not functioing properly and allowing the parts to be fully opened or closed causing erosion in the internal parts.
They were not rusty inside but were pitted from erossion.
Good luck and get those fuel samples and pay for it yourself. that way it is independant from the dealership.
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08-11-2010, 04:22 PM
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you are totally wrong
do some research before you make a statement like that................[/QUOTE]
Explain Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ulsd), for emmissions maybe?
I may be a dummy, but I do believe the sulfur in previous fuels used to lubricate the fuel system's inner workings. Hence the many failures of injectors and so forth. As for the research, the local bosch dealer recommends a conditioner, due to the low sulfur content in fuel. Believe what you want, you have to live with your truck.
do some research before you make a statement like that................[/QUOTE]Explain Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ulsd), for emmissions maybe?
I may be a dummy, but I do believe the sulfur in previous fuels used to lubricate the fuel system's inner workings. Hence the many failures of injectors and so forth. As for the research, the local bosch dealer recommends a conditioner, due to the low sulfur content in fuel. Believe what you want, you have to live with your truck.
08-11-2010, 04:39 PM
#9
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Back when ULSD was introduced there was some problems and it did not have quite enough lubricity in some cases. Within a few months all refineries/distributors added lubricity by various methods. Some used bio, their own light oil lube addition, industrial from such as PS, etc. There should not be a lubricity issue today unless someone is not doing their job meeting standards.
08-11-2010, 04:49 PM
#10
Administrator / Severe Concussion Aficionado
Explain Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ulsd), for emmissions maybe? I may be a dummy, but I do believe the sulfur in previous fuels used to lubricate the fuel system's inner workings. Hence the many failures of injectors and so forth. As for the research, the local bosch dealer recommends a conditioner, due to the low sulfur content in fuel. Believe what you want, you have to live with your truck.
I may be a dummy, but I do believe the sulfur in previous fuels used to lubricate the fuel system's inner workings. Hence the many failures of injectors and so forth. As for the research, the local bosch dealer recommends a conditioner, due to the low sulfur content in fuel. Believe what you want, you have to live with your truck.However, the process used to REMOVE the sulfur took its toll on lubricity. Measures have been enacted to take care of the problem.
08-11-2010, 05:16 PM
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Let me clarify:
"You're going to get a lot of you play you pay comments.
I took off my Quad when I lost 2 injectors in a month span, I'm sure it was a fuel issue and a misdiagnosis of which injector, but until I get my 2 micron set-up the Quad stays off."
I haven't run my smarty since the 6th one failed, 2 weeks after they put 5 in the first time, a little less than a year and a half ago.
"What do you mean by "injector noise"? Is it hard starting? May not be contamination just worn."
Injector noise, as in ticking and clattering, like you hear on a 12V, or any older diesel for that matter.
"4 failed for either contamination issues or worn seats.
Did you see the actual report from the test facility?
Something seems to be fishy about this siutation. Get a fuel sample from your truck pre and post filter most Cummins and or Cat shops will have sample bottle for around $30. I perfer Cat SOS services.
Worn seats due to manufacutre defects is noticable, the same for worn seats from contamination. They both look different and both have the same outcome. You will probelly be out of pocket as dealerships work that way.
I would be very leary of one failed electronically and the rest were internal. I dealt with this on my 2003 where I went through injectors like no bodys business. They kept having internal failures corrosion build up and seat failures. turns out my injectors were working intermittantly and causing corrosion to form due to not functioning properly. I only had two that would do this on a regular basis, but electrical failures can cause premature wear by not functioing properly and allowing the parts to be fully opened or closed causing erosion in the internal parts.
They were not rusty inside but were pitted from erossion.
Good luck and get those fuel samples and pay for it yourself. that way it is independant from the dealership."
I did see the report, and it says exactly as I have it shown above, no quantification, nothing. Thanks for the comments about the electrical issues, I'll bring this up with the Cummins Rep. The one they replaced 2 months ago failed electrically as well. Two weeks later I lost a bank of injectors again in Vegas, where they replaced the injector wiring harness because they couldn't find anything wrong with the injectors, you know, the valve cover gasket.
"You're going to get a lot of you play you pay comments.
I took off my Quad when I lost 2 injectors in a month span, I'm sure it was a fuel issue and a misdiagnosis of which injector, but until I get my 2 micron set-up the Quad stays off."
I haven't run my smarty since the 6th one failed, 2 weeks after they put 5 in the first time, a little less than a year and a half ago.
"What do you mean by "injector noise"? Is it hard starting? May not be contamination just worn."
Injector noise, as in ticking and clattering, like you hear on a 12V, or any older diesel for that matter.
"4 failed for either contamination issues or worn seats.
Did you see the actual report from the test facility?
Something seems to be fishy about this siutation. Get a fuel sample from your truck pre and post filter most Cummins and or Cat shops will have sample bottle for around $30. I perfer Cat SOS services.
Worn seats due to manufacutre defects is noticable, the same for worn seats from contamination. They both look different and both have the same outcome. You will probelly be out of pocket as dealerships work that way.
I would be very leary of one failed electronically and the rest were internal. I dealt with this on my 2003 where I went through injectors like no bodys business. They kept having internal failures corrosion build up and seat failures. turns out my injectors were working intermittantly and causing corrosion to form due to not functioning properly. I only had two that would do this on a regular basis, but electrical failures can cause premature wear by not functioing properly and allowing the parts to be fully opened or closed causing erosion in the internal parts.
They were not rusty inside but were pitted from erossion.
Good luck and get those fuel samples and pay for it yourself. that way it is independant from the dealership."
I did see the report, and it says exactly as I have it shown above, no quantification, nothing. Thanks for the comments about the electrical issues, I'll bring this up with the Cummins Rep. The one they replaced 2 months ago failed electrically as well. Two weeks later I lost a bank of injectors again in Vegas, where they replaced the injector wiring harness because they couldn't find anything wrong with the injectors, you know, the valve cover gasket.
08-11-2010, 05:30 PM
#12
Something is telling me that you may have an electrical problem and they may not be able to find it. Check your harness for corrosion by the ECM and also your grounds.
If it was really contaminated fuel they would have put a stop work order on the injectors and charged you tons of money. So at least your dealer has been good that way.
I am interested in who did the injector testing and how they tested the injectors and then inspected them. Always curious.
Most injectors you get now are bebuilt, not sure if any of the companys are making new injectors for our trucks anymore with in North America.
Good luck and keep us posted.
If it was really contaminated fuel they would have put a stop work order on the injectors and charged you tons of money. So at least your dealer has been good that way.
I am interested in who did the injector testing and how they tested the injectors and then inspected them. Always curious.
Most injectors you get now are bebuilt, not sure if any of the companys are making new injectors for our trucks anymore with in North America.
Good luck and keep us posted.
08-11-2010, 05:38 PM
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Something is telling me that you may have an electrical problem and they may not be able to find it. Check your harness for corrosion by the ECM and also your grounds.
If it was really contaminated fuel they would have put a stop work order on the injectors and charged you tons of money. So at least your dealer has been good that way.
I am interested in who did the injector testing and how they tested the injectors and then inspected them. Always curious.
Most injectors you get now are bebuilt, not sure if any of the companys are making new injectors for our trucks anymore with in North America.
Good luck and keep us posted.
If it was really contaminated fuel they would have put a stop work order on the injectors and charged you tons of money. So at least your dealer has been good that way.
I am interested in who did the injector testing and how they tested the injectors and then inspected them. Always curious.
Most injectors you get now are bebuilt, not sure if any of the companys are making new injectors for our trucks anymore with in North America.
Good luck and keep us posted.
The testing was done by Bosh, the report on company letterhead. The service manager has told me that he is required to send all injectors out now, which started mid July, to this facility to be tested before they're replaced.
I can go directly down to the Cummins dealer here in town and buy NEW (not reman, no cores, verified this with the cummins factory warehouse) injectors. $520 each, I'm going to take this information to the rep when I talk to him and show him that they are available, contrary to what they continue to tell me.
08-11-2010, 06:16 PM
#15
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i have several 06's and never a injector failure. i think you have a fuel problem. the duramax has the exact same Bosch pump and injectors. i would strongly suggest you add a good filter system. Bosch did not like the filter used by mopar and that is where a lot of problems are. you really need a 2 micron filter. after about teen combinations of filters and bases i finally came up with the best combination and mounting place especially on the 06. if you go that route pm me and i will send list and pix. try to buy your fuel from truck stops. if you have access to bio diesel add some to each tank if not use some two cycle oil from wall-mart. and get rid of the k&n filter. mopar has a new deep pleat filter like the 6.7. i hope the k&n did not dust the engine to bad. i keep a new one in my shop to show every one how bad they are. cummins has had warnings out about them for years.