chaikwa

I couldn't agree with you more! A 40,000lb truck/trailer might stop and/or handle just fine when everything is working perfectly and in good shape, but one minor failure of any component would spell disaster in a fraction of a second. I've seen it happen myself, first-hand.

You just stated that Dodge, the manufacturer, rated your truck at a maximum of 20,000lbs gcvw. Then in the next sentence you imply that by hauling 40,000 lbs you are doing what these trucks are made to do. That's twice the manufacturer rating. If you don't mind my asking, how did you come to this conclusion?

chaikwa.

SWC

Sorry for the long scroll.
I would like to know how the manufacturers rate the towing capacity of light trucks like our 2500 and 3500.
I have to admit I have not recently looked at a magazine article that compare trucks in towing situations because it seems their requirements are different then mine. When I see advertisements in the news media I am told that this truck or that truck can accelerate with a certain kind of load, pull out of sand, pull boats out of water or best one yet see how this Toyota truck can tow this load in a simulated condition on a narrow rail of a bridge with fans blowing from the side and not blow off!!! All useless information to me.
What I want to know is how stable is this truck with a given load and how will this truck handle this load when I have to stop in a panic situation. I think all of us who use these trucks are concerned about that. When the rating for a single wheel 3500 is not much different then a dually I know that the ratings given by the manufacturer are not accurately reflecting the real "capacity" of the truck.
The other thing I look at is what is the stopping distance of full size tractor trailer unit when loaded. Is my unit capable of stopping in that distance. When those involved in the hauling business talk about going beyond the factory rated towing capacity of their towing unit and are still legal AND insured I assume that they have these same things in mind.
So much of these ratings are based on what does the manufacturer want to cover under warranty.
I believe our trucks are far more capable then what the factory will rate them for. If that is not the case then there is no way an insurer would give coverage beyond the factory rating.
Personal opinions only, not covered by facts or statistics!
Stan

chaikwa

I agree that they will haul more than they are rated for, and with relative ease, but when the phoo hits the phan, most of what will be looked at and taken into consideration for liability is whether the truck was being operated in excess of what the manufacturer rated it for. Insurance companies will insure anything for any amount as long as you pay them, then back out of their liability and obligation to pay you once they find out you were over, (WAY over in some cases), the stated rating of the unit, which places you in a position to be charged with negligent operation at the very least. This in turn negates their obligation to cover your losses. They are assuming you wouldn't knowingly do anything unsafe or illegal, hence their initial eagerness to cover you. Same scenario with registering the truck. The authorities don't care what weight you place on the registration as long as you can pay for it. It's not their job at that point to declare what a safe operating weight is for any vehicle.

The insurance company insured my '89 Autocar for 105,000lbs which was only legal for me to haul that amount of weight if I had the appropriate trailer and an over-weight permit for, neither of which I had when it was initially insured. If I had put that amount of weight on the truck itself or on an inadequate trailer, and got in an accident, I doubt I would have been covered.

chaikwa.

GAmes

I'm guessing you have heard that malarkey on other forums and other threads. Have you ever read your policy? On mine, they have exclusions for a variety of things. For instance, I would be denied PIP coverage if in a commission of a felony, but that exclusion is not included in my collision coverage. So if I total the truck while waving a pistol out the window (I think that's a felony) I'd get reimbursed for the truck but not for medical bills. My liability coverage would remain intact as well. None of the exclusions even remotely hints or comes close to excluding coverage for operating over the manufacturer's GCWR, or addresses weight in any way.

Every day people wreck their cars while speeding, which is unsafe and illegal, but are not denied their coverage. I would venture that 90% of wrecks are the result of some type of illegal behavior, which includes inattention. Bottom line is, if the contract doesn't exclude it, they can't deny coverage. They may drop you or deny renewal after the fact, but they would still have to pay.

24valvepuller

It could spell disaster at almost any weight depending on what it is, I have seen people in brand new cars on a dry sraight piece of road somehow wreck and destroy their car
Why does Dodge keep the hp limit so low on these motors, the engine will take much more, the factory clutch will hold more, the tranny is built for more, frames are fine at over 1000hp, axles are good for way more than dodge gives you, so why in 1994 did dodge give you 160 hp and in 02 give you 245hp and now it is up over 300hp with basically the same truck. These trucks are built far better than dodge gives them selves credit for, they are all built better than the factory says chevy ford or dodge. When I got mine in 2000 I felt it out as to how much the truck and I fet comfortable with, the limit was set with how much the tires would hold, for me that was about 37k II guess if the truck was not built to take it that the frame would be twisted, hitch would have broken, brakes would have been smoked hard enough to catch fire as I slam into the back of a school bus full of kids. But since none of that happened and nothing other than brakes and tires and a set of spider gears have ever needed replace or fixed due to wearing out or fatigue I would say the truck has held up fine to the abuse. Before I quit driving it everyday I had put 85k miles on it, in that time I never ran a full tank of fuel through it that either didn't have a plow out front a heavy trailer out back or a sled trying to brake it in half. If you don't feel capable of dragging that much weight then don't but know the truck would handle it

loch

First no one ridiculed anyone for working thier trucks as designed, but you know as well as I 40k lbs is not the way they were designed to be worked. If a dually 350 could handle the job safely then there wouldnt be any midsize truck, we wouldnt need them.
Now that being said you pull any load you want, im not your boss, but when you smack that car with the three kids in it because you couldnt control the load with a tonka toy truck you better hope im not on the jury or someone like me.

keith1992

I take it you all wouldn't approve of my habit of fairly frequently renting Penske/Ryder trucks and sticking 30-35K # worth of cargo in them? That's three times the weight of the cargo you are supposed to put in there.

And before we get started with the speech about the minivan with three kids... know that most traffic "accidents" can be avoided by not driving like an idiot. Most traffic accidents are not accidents at all, but cases of negligence. I have had the Penskes on 7% grades with the overload and had no problem keeping control. I don't tailgate and I don't let other drivers put me in a position where I may need to make a panic stop. If someone is driving too slow in the right lane on a downgrade, I'll get in the left lane and let all of the people who wanna do 90 flash their lights and get mad. You don't ride your brakes all the way down otherwise you lose them. Common sense that most people don't practice.

GVW ratings are not absolute except in the eyes of DOT officers. God gave us CB radios and truckers atlases to avoid the chicken coups and thier bears. The rest will be taken care of with common sense. Yes, there are some loads you should not hook up to or put in the box. But in many cases, the supposed load limits are arbitrary and can be safely exceeded by a factor of two or more.

nkennedy

I do wonder where the manufacturer's GVWR comes from for a pickup. Sometimes it doesn't make sense. My 01 3/4 is 8800 lbs. It's the same 8800 lbs Dodge gives a gas motor 3/4 & a lighter duty diffential. Why didn't the diesel with a D80, overload springs & stabilizer bars get a higher GVWR. I know it's legale for what ever you register it for, so that's not the issue. And yes I have weighed my truck & trailer. Everyone hauling an RV should at some point.

24valvepuller

I have driven chevy kodiacks with little dumps on them, My little tonka toy would easily out work that pile of crap, that little cat with a 5 &2 spd is effectively an old mack, wind it out then lug after the shift for twenty minutes until it finally gets rolling down hill. The brakes are bigger but I was not impressed, my dad drives a newer one and he also says he feels safer pulling the same weight with his 2500 d-max. I have never been out of control with my little rig because as was just mentioned I do not tailgate, or let someone make me tailgate them, I do not speed and my stuff is as well mantained as anybodys. I guess I better not tell you about all the farmers that pull 30-40k wagons that have NO brakes, but their only doing 30 mph, I think I started doing that when I was about 11 or 12 with a 3/4 ton chevy with a 6.2. Maybe thats why I don't see pulling the same weight with brakes a challenge

olddodgetrucks

boy people sure get caught up in numbers,if all you have ever driven is a vw than gradualy work way up in #s pulled.if you use some the illogic a 20000lb hwy tractor should only pull a load of 18000 bs but acually pulls up to 8 x its wieght.

SWC

Chaikwa's question about insurance coverage beyond factory ratings nagged (usually a job my wife does well enough without any help) at me enough that I had to check it out.
The response I got this morning was that the agent had never heard of anyone not receiving coverage in the case of an accident when towing beyond factory ratings. They are told by the insurance company to make sure that insurance and plates cover the weight being towed. I was under that assumption and at least now I know.
So chaikwa, I seriously have to say thank you. You know the old line that to assume can make an ***(out of)u(and)me. (Sorry admins if that is not appropriate.)
Stan

keith1992

Don't go by what the insurance agent says. What they say wont get you paid in a wreck and they are just about as informed as a kid behind the counter at the Golden Arches. And some of them are extremely dishonest.

The language of the insurance contract is what decides if things will get covered. You know, that thing that most people never read. Neither my personal nor my commercial policies have any wording in them about what types of license plates are on the vehicle or weight limits. My personal policy does specifically state that it excludes coverage of any vehicle that is titled as a commercial vehicle and/or would require a CDL to lawfully operate.

If you paid the premium and hold a driver's license, they have to cover you even if there are no plates on the vehicle at all. I drove a car back from Florida to Ohio that I had bought a few years back and some dumb bunny rear ended me. I had no plates, no registration and it wasn't titled in my name. They still had to pay for it.

Most auto polices offer very little coverage for the trailer itself, though the same liability limits apply, they want you to buy a separate policy for it. And if you have an expensive trailer, you should. For instance, Progressive only covers $500 in physical damage to the trailer even though I have $500K combined single limit full coverage. $500 wont replace hardly any trailer, except maybe one of those 8x10 flat kit trailers people haul thier mowers on. Commercial is a different story.

You need to read and understand the insurance policy, not the little flyer they put in there that provides the user friendly description of the coverage or your declarations page.

loch

The kodiak was an example only, im not fond of them either. But thy are designed to pull that type of load. I was raised on a farm, I know all about the way farmers pull loads. My X boss pulls a 30 ft gooseneck with 21 bales of hay that weigh over a half ton apiece wih a 3/4 ton ford that weighs in at 11k by itself. No hes never had a wreck and hes been doing it for 20 plus years. But doing it for ever doesnt make it safe or wise.

In our trailer shop this is dots new guide line, it will be nation wide soon,

Every motor vehicle or combination of vehicles shall have a service braking system which will stop the vehicle or combination within 40' from an initial speed of 20mph on level, dry, smooth, hard surface with no noticible loss of controled steering. ( The trailer brakes alone have to do it in 40ft.)

Now argue all you want or fuss at the guys at DOT if it can not achieve this goal your ileagal and unsafe, now for the good part, if your involved in a wreck (and i hope no one ever is) and your truck and trailer cant meet those requirements you are guilty automaticly even if the guy ran a stop sign and you T boned him. DOT is trying to get these cases to be brought before a federal magistrate not a judge, if they do guess what no jury he gets to decide.

Now I dont know about others insurance but mine clearly states coverage is waived in the event of a wreck in which i am in violation of the law, being overloaded is a crime, so if they dont want too they dont have to cover you.

I'v stated my point stay legal and safe, if any one wants to do other wise its up to you. I dont tell others what to do i only point out facts they may not know.

If any wants to know these are current guidelines for all 50 states, All will match Utah before much longer.


http://www.trailerpart.com/safety.htm

GAmes

So if you hit a patch of black ice at night and are cited for failure to control, driving too fast for conditions (speeding), or any other infraction you aren't covered??????? BS

loch

Read your insurance policy, i doubt that hitting ice is classified as a crime. But if your driving in an unsafe manner and you cause a wreck whos fault is it ? it shouldnt be the ins place to pay if your a complete idiot. I started this thread to point out the humor of ppl going way beyond thier trucks abilities and to hopefully get ppl to think about thier loads. but it seems to have taken a turn to the idiotic side. Probably none of the ppl that responded in a smart alec way even bothered to check thier policy or even know for a fact any info i gave is true or not.

As for this thread im done, go ahead and do what ever you want, when you crash the volunteer fireman trying to help your silly butt just might be me. I bet B.S. wont be mentioned then.

someone lock this thing