A Little Towin Going On, Long Post
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Sorry for the delay in answering your questions. The Forum has not sent anything letting me know replies had been posted. Don't know whats with that.
Anyway to answer the question as to the RPM needed, it comes directly from the Cummins Web Site addressing gearing for trucks at a given speed. I used 65 mph. Thats what the trailer tires are rated for. Please see;
http://www.powerspec.cummins.com/sit...ng/gearing.htm
Use ISB as you might already know.
I have not pulled the trailer at full load without the wing in the past. Next time out I plan to do that, with the Aux Tank off to see what mileage is. That may not happen untill next April or May since I don't go north of I-10 between now and April.
This I can tell you about the Turbo Wing. I towed a good size airboat over to St. Martinville, La after the trip. (low profile tow) My normal mileage towing a similar boat is between 7.3 and 8.4 mpg. You may have seen my post from last spring with a picture of the tow. With the Wing for the tow, I got 10.9 mpg going over and got my butt kicked coming back getting 13.3 mpg with no tow. Without the wing, I normally get 19 mpg. So the wing is a load. I have not done any calculations yet to see what the drag is.
As mentioned eariler the air does not get over my fifth wheels front cap. So raising the angle may help the mileage. As I'm still pulling 3 ft of trailer in the open air along with the wings blast on the face of the cap. The strut that positions the wing has no more adjustment in it and no more length were another hole could be added. So if another can't be obtained from the manufacturer, I have to have it custom made.
Carl48 had some good info. As mentioned before mileage suffers from the 3rd event in the injection cycle, and the Tranny is the weak link in the drive train which I'm aware of. Keeping the main load off the tranny is the objective. Hence as mentioned before, I don't turn on the Juice until I'm up to speed and in O/D with the Triple lock up Torque Converter enganged.
I have read about camshafts and the 3rd event in the past. I think the cost outways the benifit. Keeping the load off the tranny, in my opinion would be better served by using a 4:56 gear with the Juice and some billet parts in the tranny. I would not change the gear ratio from 4:10 to 4:56 unless I go fulltime and towing is all I would be doing. I think >12.5 mpg is possible with the bigger gears at 60-65 mph.
Running at 55-60 mph with the Juice on Tow, results in downshifts. Not enough rpm. No downshifts are seen at 65 mph on the grades I've encoutered so far.
See post 639 for the airboat picture.
https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...158300p43.html
Hope I answered everyones questions.
Thanks for the replies.
Dave
Anyway to answer the question as to the RPM needed, it comes directly from the Cummins Web Site addressing gearing for trucks at a given speed. I used 65 mph. Thats what the trailer tires are rated for. Please see;
http://www.powerspec.cummins.com/sit...ng/gearing.htm
Use ISB as you might already know.
I have not pulled the trailer at full load without the wing in the past. Next time out I plan to do that, with the Aux Tank off to see what mileage is. That may not happen untill next April or May since I don't go north of I-10 between now and April.
This I can tell you about the Turbo Wing. I towed a good size airboat over to St. Martinville, La after the trip. (low profile tow) My normal mileage towing a similar boat is between 7.3 and 8.4 mpg. You may have seen my post from last spring with a picture of the tow. With the Wing for the tow, I got 10.9 mpg going over and got my butt kicked coming back getting 13.3 mpg with no tow. Without the wing, I normally get 19 mpg. So the wing is a load. I have not done any calculations yet to see what the drag is.
As mentioned eariler the air does not get over my fifth wheels front cap. So raising the angle may help the mileage. As I'm still pulling 3 ft of trailer in the open air along with the wings blast on the face of the cap. The strut that positions the wing has no more adjustment in it and no more length were another hole could be added. So if another can't be obtained from the manufacturer, I have to have it custom made.
Carl48 had some good info. As mentioned before mileage suffers from the 3rd event in the injection cycle, and the Tranny is the weak link in the drive train which I'm aware of. Keeping the main load off the tranny is the objective. Hence as mentioned before, I don't turn on the Juice until I'm up to speed and in O/D with the Triple lock up Torque Converter enganged.
I have read about camshafts and the 3rd event in the past. I think the cost outways the benifit. Keeping the load off the tranny, in my opinion would be better served by using a 4:56 gear with the Juice and some billet parts in the tranny. I would not change the gear ratio from 4:10 to 4:56 unless I go fulltime and towing is all I would be doing. I think >12.5 mpg is possible with the bigger gears at 60-65 mph.
Running at 55-60 mph with the Juice on Tow, results in downshifts. Not enough rpm. No downshifts are seen at 65 mph on the grades I've encoutered so far.
See post 639 for the airboat picture.
https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...158300p43.html
Hope I answered everyones questions.
Thanks for the replies.
Dave
The drag on the wing is probably proportional to its frontal area regardless of angle.
Because the wing creates turbulance it may do an excellent job of keeping the trailer clean from bugs and road debris, much like a bug deflector on the hood.
Thread Starter
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,425
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From: Melbourne, Florida
Regarding the wings: When I was a service manager at a CAT truck engine shop CAT told us that once the trailer is more than 18 - 24 inches from the vehicle in front of it there is no value to anything trying to push the air aside. The air finds it's way in. This was in regards to setting the trailer nose distance to the back of the cab and fitting trailers with flexible extensions to close the gap on the sides at the front corners. I imagine the gap from the wing to the trailer is much more.
The drag on the wing is probably proportional to its frontal area regardless of angle.
Because the wing creates turbulance it may do an excellent job of keeping the trailer clean from bugs and road debris, much like a bug deflector on the hood.
The drag on the wing is probably proportional to its frontal area regardless of angle.
Because the wing creates turbulance it may do an excellent job of keeping the trailer clean from bugs and road debris, much like a bug deflector on the hood.
The wing in its current position does make a differacne with other low profile
tows as mentioned above. As metioned above it is a good bug deflector.
The front cap on the trailer is right at 12ft off the ground.
Dave
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From: Kenai Alaska
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 178
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From: Rosthern SK
Wings
This discussion on wings is interesting.
I hauled RV's for one year (2003). I had a wing and still use it when we travel with our 5er. I have a Taylor Wing and always adjusted it for different front end heighths by eyeball. If a saw a bugline I figured it was not high enough.
I have a deck with a headache rack on my truck and had the wing mounted on the headache rack similar to CD. I did make extensions for my adjustable bars on the back to increase the angle more.
I always dropped the wing as much as possible when I was running empty. I had the bottom of the wing touching the forward arms.
On one trip I towed a bumper hitch travel trailer with the wing way down and there was no bug line on the front of the trailer except for on the sides. The bug line looked like an hour glass, nothing at the top and the bottom and in about 2.5 feet on each side in the middle. I found this very interesting that the wing would influence the air flow 10 feet behind the wing!
If I understand aerodynamics, what makes the wing work is the air flowing under and up the back side of the wing which minimizes turbulence. When I installed my wing I was told to have a gap of 4 inches between the leading edge of the wing and the top of the cab.
Just my 2 cents.
Stan
I hauled RV's for one year (2003). I had a wing and still use it when we travel with our 5er. I have a Taylor Wing and always adjusted it for different front end heighths by eyeball. If a saw a bugline I figured it was not high enough.
I have a deck with a headache rack on my truck and had the wing mounted on the headache rack similar to CD. I did make extensions for my adjustable bars on the back to increase the angle more.
I always dropped the wing as much as possible when I was running empty. I had the bottom of the wing touching the forward arms.
On one trip I towed a bumper hitch travel trailer with the wing way down and there was no bug line on the front of the trailer except for on the sides. The bug line looked like an hour glass, nothing at the top and the bottom and in about 2.5 feet on each side in the middle. I found this very interesting that the wing would influence the air flow 10 feet behind the wing!
If I understand aerodynamics, what makes the wing work is the air flowing under and up the back side of the wing which minimizes turbulence. When I installed my wing I was told to have a gap of 4 inches between the leading edge of the wing and the top of the cab.
Just my 2 cents.
Stan
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From: Houston
Nice rig!!
I think the 4.56's are a bit over the top, the 4.10's are good for towing & mpg overall.
FWIW, many of the replies on wings say they just move the bug line up the Fiver and have litte impact on MPG. Slowing down to 55 or 60, if you can live with that, will improve your mileage, IMHO.
Enjoy!!
I think the 4.56's are a bit over the top, the 4.10's are good for towing & mpg overall.
FWIW, many of the replies on wings say they just move the bug line up the Fiver and have litte impact on MPG. Slowing down to 55 or 60, if you can live with that, will improve your mileage, IMHO.
Enjoy!!
Thread Starter
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,425
Likes: 2
From: Melbourne, Florida
Nice rig!!
I think the 4.56's are a bit over the top, the 4.10's are good for towing & mpg overall.
FWIW, many of the replies on wings say they just move the bug line up the Fiver and have litte impact on MPG. Slowing down to 55 or 60, if you can live with that, will improve your mileage, IMHO.
Enjoy!!
I think the 4.56's are a bit over the top, the 4.10's are good for towing & mpg overall.
FWIW, many of the replies on wings say they just move the bug line up the Fiver and have litte impact on MPG. Slowing down to 55 or 60, if you can live with that, will improve your mileage, IMHO.
Enjoy!!
I'll be headed out in the spring and will leave the wing off and make a couple stops and check mileage running the Attitude on tow mode as I did with the wing at 65mph. I will have a set of Aluminum struts made to increase the angle and reinstall the wing sometime along the trip and check it again.
I won't install the 4:56's unless I on the road towing all the time as they will produce better mileage.
Dave
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Joined: Dec 2006
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From: Corpus Christi, Texas
I doubt the wing will make much difference. Sort of like AIRTABS, we all wish something simple would be effective. That big squared rear on the 5'er is the real problem. I've seen some DIY "boat-tails" on enclosed cargo trailers that don't look bad, and that the reports seem genuine about increased mileage (www.Ecomodder.com).
On the other hand, what to do with it once parked . . . .
Keeping speed down is the only thing that will be effective. After 60 mph resistance climbs like a rocket.
The Physics of MPG
Gearing and aero is where it's at
.
On the other hand, what to do with it once parked . . . .
Keeping speed down is the only thing that will be effective. After 60 mph resistance climbs like a rocket.
The Physics of MPG
Gearing and aero is where it's at
.
Thread Starter
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,425
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From: Melbourne, Florida
Just thought I would let you Wing Interested guys know, I made some new Stainless Steel Struts 2" longer than the stock ones. I've been out with the trailer for 80 mile runs since I raised it. The bug line I had with the Wing in its last position, is no longer visible. Lots of bugs on the wing. So I think the air is now making it to the top of the trailer front cap. You can see the difference in the angle from what it was.
I'll know more in a month of so as we are getting underway sometime this month for awhile. Will check fuel mileage, just in case it gets better ?
See pictures for before and after.
Dave
I'll know more in a month of so as we are getting underway sometime this month for awhile. Will check fuel mileage, just in case it gets better ?
See pictures for before and after.
Dave
Thread Starter
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Joined: May 2002
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From: Melbourne, Florida
Just an update. The wing was moved up 2" using longer struts. After 1350 miles on this trip, Fuel Mileage remains the same. The only thing that has changed is the bug line has moved up above the word Carriage. So I gonna raise it another inch. Will have the struts made and install them.
We are in Lake Hills, Texas right now.
Dave
We are in Lake Hills, Texas right now.
Dave
Thread Starter
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Joined: May 2002
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From: Melbourne, Florida
Hello Again, hope most of you are still around.
Well guys, I finally pulled the wing off the truck for mileage reasons without towing the rig. My wife came down with cancer last June 2014 and went thru chemo. We got back on the road in December, and we are hanging around in Central Florida, after being at Wickham Park in Melbourne, Fl. for 8 months. We are waiting on spring. Not going north of I-10 now. Wife is doing great.
I've towed the trailer Several hundred miles in Florida and can tell you my fuel mileage is less than with the wing up. With the wing up before without the trailer we did somewhere between 13 and 14 mpg. With the trailer 11.7 to 12 depending on the land profile at 63 mph. Hwy running is 18.5 to 19 at 65 mpg.
Without the wing, besides the dirty front cap, we are doing 10.8 to 11 mpg. Not much difference, but a little. Will put it back on in April
when we depart Florida until next Thanksgiving if all goes well.
Trailer is a little heavier at 15,100 lbs and pin is up to 3150 lbs. It's been like that for a couple years. Run's 7% grade in 3rd at 45 mph. EGT's and Tranny steady. Truck now has 117,800 miles on it.
Dave
Well guys, I finally pulled the wing off the truck for mileage reasons without towing the rig. My wife came down with cancer last June 2014 and went thru chemo. We got back on the road in December, and we are hanging around in Central Florida, after being at Wickham Park in Melbourne, Fl. for 8 months. We are waiting on spring. Not going north of I-10 now. Wife is doing great.
I've towed the trailer Several hundred miles in Florida and can tell you my fuel mileage is less than with the wing up. With the wing up before without the trailer we did somewhere between 13 and 14 mpg. With the trailer 11.7 to 12 depending on the land profile at 63 mph. Hwy running is 18.5 to 19 at 65 mpg.
Without the wing, besides the dirty front cap, we are doing 10.8 to 11 mpg. Not much difference, but a little. Will put it back on in April
when we depart Florida until next Thanksgiving if all goes well.
Trailer is a little heavier at 15,100 lbs and pin is up to 3150 lbs. It's been like that for a couple years. Run's 7% grade in 3rd at 45 mph. EGT's and Tranny steady. Truck now has 117,800 miles on it.
Dave
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From: Kansas
Hi Dave, long time.. Sorry to hear about your wife, hope all is good there. Our thoughts and prayers for you both. Since last we met, we left Melbourne and went to Tucson stayed for 9 months and then back across the country to Charleston, SC. Stayed there for 7 months until the job ended and now we are back in KS. This last leg we blew 3 of our 6 tires on the rig in 2 days all on the right side. Did appx $3000 in damage to the coach. We have an excellent repair place tho and it is back up to standard again. Anyway keep on truckin, good to hear from you again. Stay Safe.
Stuff like that sure put a reality check on the truly important things in life. 
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From: The "real" Northern CA
Reading over your great thread Dave..... Sorry to hear about your wife. You two will be in our prayers.
Life is not only too short.....its also backwards. Get out there and live it up while you can.
Life is not only too short.....its also backwards. Get out there and live it up while you can.
Thread Starter
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,425
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From: Melbourne, Florida
Hey Guys;
Thanks for all the good words and prayers for Pat. She is doing good. Well be leaving Florida in late April for Crawfish land. Will be in Morgan City at Lake End Park, 1/2 miles for the Crawfish buyer. Boiling some bugs and visiting old friends who live there. From there headed north for my Wife's Sisters daughter's Wedding in Maryland. Will be roving around from there and will be in Branson MO. in October for a couple weeks if all goes well.
Hey Dogtracker, may be coming from the east or northeast and will pass thru KC on the way to Branson. Let me know where your at in Kansas.
Dave
Thanks for all the good words and prayers for Pat. She is doing good. Well be leaving Florida in late April for Crawfish land. Will be in Morgan City at Lake End Park, 1/2 miles for the Crawfish buyer. Boiling some bugs and visiting old friends who live there. From there headed north for my Wife's Sisters daughter's Wedding in Maryland. Will be roving around from there and will be in Branson MO. in October for a couple weeks if all goes well.
Hey Dogtracker, may be coming from the east or northeast and will pass thru KC on the way to Branson. Let me know where your at in Kansas.
Dave