Here's the problem: when I load the toyhauler up near it's capacity, it squats a good 2-1/2" or so which makes the trailer tongue VERY low to the ground. So low that my weight distributing drop hitch won't get down far enough, causing it to ride slightly nose-high. If I crank the w/d setup up to where it really should be, it only makes things worse because it yanks the trailer tongue up higher as the nose of the truck drops. Anyhow, a lower drop hitch is not the answer because the w/d bars already hang so low they have kissed the pavement a couple times during fuel stops. The right thing to do would be to keep the trailer from squatting... So, has anyone done anything silly like run airbags on travel trailer axles, or maybe used Timbrens on a trailer? Have done zero research, just thought I'd start here. Thanks for any ideas!!

 

Ive known of ppl who

actually flip the axle leaf springs on the trailer, and run it higher, but i dont reccoment that. ive seen that on a couple of trailers (16 footers) and when they are really loaded down, looks to be too risky. What id do if i was you was try adding taller tires to the trailer, or get better spring packs for the axles. Sounds like an 8 lug axle conversion might be ur best bet..

Tx

 

The problem appears to be excessive tongue weight which should be about 10% of the gross trailer weight. You will need to weigh the trailer and truck at a public scale to determine the correct tongue weight.
I noticed on your website that the Jeep is facing forward, this puts the engine weight too far forward and could be the reason for the excessive tongue weight. You may correct your problem by backing the Jeep in to lighten the tongue but you really need to do this at the scale so that you don't get the tongue too light.

Good luck,

Hyspeed

 

You should check to see if the maker of your wd hitch has an extra long shank avail. I think I've seen them as long as 12" or thereabouts.

 

This isn't directed specifically at you, but I've heard this SO many times, and it's such a wive's tale..

If you actually F/R scaled a Jeep, you'd find the weight dist. to be not far off of 55/45, so the whole "engine weight being too far forward" thing is just un-true. it takes more than an engine to make a Jeep weight nearly 4000lbs.

But, by backing on, you run the very real risk of damaging the soft top (if equipped) or anything else like that (bikini top, soft doors, etc.) Jeep-type vehicles are not made to go 70mph backwards.

It's similar to the damage on sportbikes I've seen from being loaded backwards. The wind has ripped windshields, and sometimes the whole fairing right off the bike..

 

Thanks for the replies... Feedback is always appreciated.

First, as mentioned in the original post, a longer drop hitch is not the answer here. Re-read and you'll understand why...

Second, Eskimo is 100% correct. Especially on the XJ's, the f/r weight distribution is near perfect. On mine, it is within 50lbs f/r with myself and my wife in the Jeep thanks to some very careful and strategic placement of storage and accessories. I'm no stranger to the scales...

Third, tongue weight is not an issue. As mentioned, I'm no scale rookie, and when loaded this puppy is dialed in. It's just too heavy for the stock spring packs even though it is within the load capacity...

So, back to the original question: what have people done to basically intermittenly increase spring rate? I guess swapping leafs or adding to the packs is an option, but that sucks for the times when I'm not loaded so heavy. Any other thoughts out there?

 

Sounds like you just need heavier axles or a heavier duty trailer.

Or........ Have you thought about getting the Timbrens on your truck? I think that's the whole idea behind them.

 

The only Jeep I've owned was a J20 but I wasn't aware of the f/r weight distribution on his Jeep, sounded good though.
Towed backwards really doesn't matter in an enclosed trailer does it? After all, the toy hauler on his website shouldn't have a 70mph wind blowing through it. Not only that but his Jeep that is loaded looks to be a hardtop to me...maybe I'm just looking at the wrong pictures.
I've experienced the backwards tow damage first hand, broke down in an 18 wheeler on I-81 and had a tractor arrive on the back of a wrecker with all the fairings torn off. Not a pretty sight.

So, if the tongue weight is correct and the problem is still there then the only thing to do is beef up the truck's suspension to handle the extra weight. Doing any thing to the trailer would not correct the problem. How about posting the weights on this setup so we can see how much is on the truck rear axle. I bet it's quite a bit and that the front axle is pretty light.

Hyspeed

 

Maybe I'm not explaining things right here... The truck is fine, and has airbags that I can pump up more than enough to keep it level. The trailer axles are rated for the weight. The problem is that the springs on the trailer sag too much when loaded heavily, which causes the trailer itself to sit too low overall. This drops the trailer tongue height significantly and makes the w/d setup nearly useless. Again, a longer drop would not solve the problem, nor would any changes to the truck. I need to keep the trailer from squatting...

 

What kind of springs/axles are on the trailer??

If it has the little flimsy rocking-tandem spring hangers with the little flimsy shackles that hold the springs to the rockers, then a spring hanger and spring swap will cure the problem.

I am a firm believer in slipper springs.

They ride good enough with plenty of strength.

 

They are the rocker/shackle arrangment. I didn't have the option for anything else, so that's what I got stuck with... Axles are 5200lb units, and everything is hunky-dory with all the gear for camping, food, water, and a couple of ATV's. But with the extra weight of the Jeep in there, the springs just don't cut it. I only pull that load a couple times a season though, and I don't want to sacrifice ride quality during the other 95% of use. I'm really leaning toward airbags or something???

 

i think you only have two options toby, the stronger springs which might not be a very desireable ride when you don't have the jeep. or the air bags, i don't see why this wouldn't work, after all alot of semi trailers are runnin on bags. sounds like you know what your doing with weighins, so if you set your air pressures right i think you'll accomplish what you're after with the bags.

 

It sounds to me like your trailer isn't really built to carry the weight you are putting on it. yeah, I know it may be 'rated' for it, but that doesn't mean it will carry it very well.

Another thing (even tho you are probably aware of it), is the trailer rating includes the trailer weight.

IE..My GN is rated for 14,000 lbs....but since the trailer itself weighs 4,000 lbs, I can only put 10,000 on it (yeah, I know I can subtract the tongue weight to load it heavier, but it's not worth trying to convince the coppers it's legal).

So, if your trailer is rated for lets say 6000 lbs, and it weighs 2000 lbs itself, and you put a 3500 lb jeep on it, your pushing the limits of what it will easily carry, especially if you have other stuff like tools and such in it too.

The axle rating isn't necessarily the best thing to go by. If the axles will carry 4000 lbs each, but the springs are only rated for 3000 a pair or per axle), you got a problem very much like what you have.

Looking at your website, the jeep is not the issue, as it's engine looks to be sitting over the axle. It should actually help you, since the weight of it is either over the trailers axle, or behind it. It may be the other stuff that is in front of the axle (water tanks, etc) that are hurting you. If you have a 5000 lb cargo capacity, and a 3500 lb jeep, then you don't have all that much left for everything else. 100 gals of water is right at 800 lbs alone. that leaves only 700 lbs for anythign else you take with you.

 

If I read you right you need more ground clearance so look at the axles and see if just by chance they have the dual spring pad set up. If they do mounting the springs on top of the axle which increases the entire trailer by 4-5" and maybe this will give you what you need. Your springs are designed to carry the specified weight and drop 2-2 1/2 " just like your truck would without airbags. You will now recieve a barrage of "this increases your center of gravity" comments and recommendations not to do it, the basic CoG increase with 80% of the weight on the floor loaded will not be serious enough to make a difference. You always have to compensate for the bigger loads hauled with defensive driving and speed adjustments anyway. PK

 

TRCM has a good point, if your already pushin or exceding your gross weight, yeah air bags will carry the weight and lift you back up, but then you'll just be transfering the problem somewhere else. and you really don't want to take the chance of damageing the frame.