steering box fix w/o aftermarket brace
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
steering box fix w/o aftermarket brace
Yesterday I had a conversation with a DC engineer who divides his time between St. Louis and Detroit (sat next to me on a cross-country flight, hours to kill). <br><br>He said some interesting things, including that the majority of lift pump problems don't come from the pump being located so far forward from the tank, but instead from problems with the onboard pressure regulator and pulses from the VP44. <br><br>One thing he said concerned me. I'd been thinking of picking up one of Darin Tessier's steering box braces, but this guy says most of the problems come from impact shudder transmitted from the wheels through the tie rods and drag links to the box. He told me the stock steering dampener is crap, and recommended going to a dual steering stabilizer set-up, like the ones made by Rancho or Skyjacker. He said all the brace would do is reflect the impact back into the frame and back down to the links. So the links would wear out quicker. <br><br>Like some feedback on this. Thanks.
#2
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 846
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re:steering box fix w/o aftermarket brace
I don't agree with that at all. All the bracket does is further support the steering bax shaft by supporting it on the front side. This just changes the fact that the pitman arm is cantilevered off the shaft (bad) to being simply supported (good). There's no change in the dynamics at all, and I can't see any way it would have any adverse affects. I will agree that the stock steering stabilizer can use some help, though (or the whole front suspension for that matter : )
John
EDIT: I don't buy the VP44 wiping out the LP either... the filter is going to absorb a lot of that pulsation.
John
EDIT: I don't buy the VP44 wiping out the LP either... the filter is going to absorb a lot of that pulsation.
#3
Registered User
Join Date: May 2002
Location: outside Raleigh, NC
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re:steering box fix w/o aftermarket brace
Banshee,<br>About the VP44 pulses - fuel is not very compressible so any pressure wave created by the pump will easily be transmitted through the medium. While the filter media might attenuate the spike somewhat it will still pass the impulse through because of the density of the fuel. The filter does not have a membrane of any sort that would allow the pulse to be damped out so the impulse will travel until frictional losses in the tubes shrink it or it hits a dead end - in this case the lift pump.<br><br>I agree with you that pulses should not hurt the lift pump but, if you get constructive interference due to reflection on the pulses, the magnitude can get surprisingly large very quickly. It would be real interesting to plumb a pressure transducer into the top of the fuel filter to see what, if any, pulsing is actually occurring and the magnitude/duration of the event(s).<br><br>Just something to think about.............
#4
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 846
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re:steering box fix w/o aftermarket brace
Redramnc,<br><br>I agree that some pulses will make their way back to the stock LP, but I think they are knocked down a fair amount by then. Nonetheless, of all the failed LPs I have seen, they have all died a slow death due to a slow but steady drop in pressure. This is almost always caused by the diaphragm spring losing its spring rate and allowing less and less pressure. This same spring is on every pressure regulated pump I know of (PE pumps, Holly pumps, Mallorys, etc), only in these pumps you can get to that spring to stretch it or replace it should the pressure start to drop. I do agree the pressure pulses are good at wiping out FP gauges, but pump impellers are already so turbulent it probabaly doesn't contribute much to the failure. Despite all that, I think we can all agree the carters are junk :P<br><br>John
#5
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Boise ID
Posts: 1,340
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re:steering box fix w/o aftermarket brace
back to the steering box question. I've just recently been digging around in that subject. I've talked to my dealer service manager, been under a truck with him and a mechanic (yes i have a good relationship with the dealer service dept). talked to Darrin (well, Marv, actually) via email, studied the diagrams, etc. studied the lukes links thing, etc.<br><br>Here's my take on the situation:<br><br>1. the stock pre-02 front end parts are not robust. The trackbar end and the tie rod ends wear easily and prematurely and cannot be lubed. <br><br>2. Don't let anyone tell you that the truck should wander. it's steering might be sensitive and it won't track like an IFS, but it won't wander if all the stock parts are good, and the alignment has been done properly. <br><br>3. Wandering, even when the trackbar and tie rods are good, is probably the result of steering sector shaft play. You can replace the steering box and still have some play, normally appearing in new steering boxes, or you can add the DSS which eliminates the problem.<br><br>4. The DSS bracket affects only the steering sector shaft, providing additional support to the shaft by adding an additional bearing outside the factory steering box. In a stock truck, the forces on the tie rods to steer the truck are carried by the steering box, its bearing and the support structure it is mounted to. With the DSS on, these forces (the tie rods pushing back on the steering box as they steer the truck) are transfered to the frame rails via the new bearing. voila, less load on the steering box shaft bearing bushings and no play in the sector shaft.
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re:steering box fix w/o aftermarket brace
Yeah, that makes sense. I ordered the DSS from Piers today. <br><br>However, I had also ordered a Skyjacker dual steering stabilizer kit. I put it on today. Had to link it on the driver's side to the tie rod, and on the passenger side to the lower drag link, an inch above the connection. Otherwise, it wouldn't clear. Still, what a difference! Vehicle tracks better, no more bump steer or bounce, control at high speed is superior, especially on rough roads. <br><br>So I believe there's something to be said for both cases, and people should probably opt for both the DSS and the dual steering stabilizer as a better solution.
#7
Administrator
Re:steering box fix w/o aftermarket brace
The lower bushing on my truck is shot and I can feel it in the steering wheel. I never have liked the idea of that steering arm sticking out of the box like that unsupported and would love to have the additional brace especially on these trucks with the heavy front end weight. However, I have an AMSOIL dual remote filter set up mounted on the frame rail directly in front of the sway bar so the brace will not work on my truck. I would like to see if he can make one with a different end on that doesn't go over to the other side so I could put one on mine. I will be replacing the steering box real soon and would like to have something before then.
Of course the engineer is going to tell you it won't work, they didn't think of it. You still have the load of turning the front wheels all on that little bushing and now you are going to add more load by installing stronger or dual stabilizers. It's a cheesy light weight box that is not really designed for trucks with this much axle weight in my opinion. I gaurentee I would install the new brace with the new box if it would fit. Two bearings is better than one any day. If it was so good, why did they dump it and go with rack and pinion on the newer ones?
DD4X4
Of course the engineer is going to tell you it won't work, they didn't think of it. You still have the load of turning the front wheels all on that little bushing and now you are going to add more load by installing stronger or dual stabilizers. It's a cheesy light weight box that is not really designed for trucks with this much axle weight in my opinion. I gaurentee I would install the new brace with the new box if it would fit. Two bearings is better than one any day. If it was so good, why did they dump it and go with rack and pinion on the newer ones?
DD4X4
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Kylemm1002
3rd Generation Ram - Non Drivetrain - All Years
1
07-14-2010 11:56 AM
Hodge
2nd Gen. Dodge Ram - No Drivetrain
18
07-14-2009 09:19 AM
GSP
Performance and Accessories 2nd gen only
2
09-21-2008 08:42 PM