PourinDiesel

Funny I didn't see Don's name anywhere on the ARP box?
I thought he helped invent those?

"Oh man. Life is funny sometimes!"

Don M

Im glad you remembered Justin Brandon actually has one of the first ten sets we had made by ARP long before the "me-toos" jumped on the bandwagon and began selling them. I heard everything from we tried the 220,000 psi material and it does not work to these things were on my porch and began to rust from the morning dew. Both of those things of course were nonsense. Firstly the stud is the most ductile material stud for the Cummins ever made. 180,000 yeild and 220,000 tensile. Secondly the stud is made from a stainless alloy. It does not rust. It is/was originally designed for steam plant applications. Yes the outside of the material will discolor from water, but it never rusts.

We provided the first samples and basically got the project off the ground after months of back and forth and phone calls. Of course ARP has the material and the production facility. It was their own patented stainless.

The first ARP studs we had made were raw stainless in color. Bright finish. After we distributed the first batches made in bright fiinish several phone calls to ARP about discoloration were being placed. ARP made the decision to Black Oxide coat them.

I never guessed that Summit Racing, Jegs, etc were ever pick up the Diesel parts market back then. Boy was I wrong.

BTW, the other brand of headstuds is now available with a allen head hex in the end. After telling many people it was not needed. I find that very funny Justin Even funnier is the other brand using ARP nuts in their kits.

After I read the TDR this AM...it turns out the ARP studs on ebay are not allen head broached. This makes them another brand. All Cummins ARP studs are broached. It is part of the spec. Someone as usual is selling something on ebay that "aint what it says it is"

They are probably reading the ARP logo on the nut.

Don~

PourinDiesel

Don,
I have never badmouthed, said, remarked or indicated that the ARP studs were nothing but the best material or stud on the market IN 12mm.
I have also never said the ARP stud with the edm'd, cad, laser cut, diamond, plasma, cryoed, cryptonited, water hex head relief for ease of install and removal was a bad idea.
I think these studs have been the ones to get since you invented them!

Don M

I have told ya before...The only thing I invented was the internet.

Don~

jermey1980

i don't know it all. i will admit that any day of the week but i called B.S in the begin here so i called again and got the these results .they are made of chrome molly the factory number is 1-805-525-1497 thats the factory number i talked this engineer super. he said the arp 2000 material has no stainless in them so maybe he is a liar to. and by the way life id funny then know it all can't admit there wrong, and before you bad mounth me my father won in 1970 thru 1972 national champships pulling tractors and then moved to semi so i have benn around the block.

signature600

Who badmouthed you???

Just reading the thread, I can't see where anyone has.

View from outside,
Chirs

herb

i just had headgasket replaced at cummins and they said they ALWAYS change head bolts when they do the head. Set of bolts from them was 165.00
also told be that there is a service bullitin changing the torque on these bolts from 66 lbs to 77 lbs

PourinDiesel

77ft lbs+ 90*

4RGSP

Pourindiesel,
I remember that you work at the factory so you are probably more on top of what the manufacturer really does. But, here's a question for you.

Why would you use a torque wrench which is and accurate (if calibrated) tool and take it to a predetermined setting 77 ft lbs, then take it another 90 degrees?
If the 90 degrees additional takes it up a few more ft lbs, then why don't you just take it there to begin with?

signature600

I'm not sure why they do that, does anyone?

BUT, when we rebuild a Deutz engine (air cooled) we have to torque the head bolts to: 1. 112 ft lbs; 2. 30*; 3. 90*; 4. 45* Talk about TIGHT!!

Guess who's job it usually us to torque those things...I'll give you a hint, I'm not even a mechanic, just the young kid around who's got more muscle than brains

Chris

PourinDiesel

To answer the question above:

The factory bolts do tend to stretch alot and not every bolt will stretch the same amount.
At a certain point a "click" type torque wrench is not accurate on these type of bolts due to their elastic properties.
Cummins does have a rated or default number for overchecking head bolts (I dont know it off the top of my head, as I remember it is for new bolts).
Doing the 90* after the initial torque will take the bolt into an acceptible range of clamp.

I would suggest taking the bolts up to the 77ft lbs and then untorque them about 360* then go back to the 77lbs' then do the 90*.
This way the bolts have a pre-breakin of sorts.

Retorquing bolts to factory specs, by one by one removal and retorque can help out an old set of bolts. Taking bolts past factory specs is a disaster and can weaken bolts or even break them (speaking from experience). There is no more clamp load to be had with taking bolts over factory spec.

The best thing is the ARP studs in 12mm and for the big boys the 14mm Haisley/A1 studs.

4RGSP

Thanks for clearing that up pourindiesel. I knew there was a very scientific explanation.
You are right about the bolts relaxing. Actually the whole joint relaxes. The material that is being clamped, the internal threads, the external threads, you name it, everything settles in.
The 70 ft lbs is probably the minumum spec. and in a manufacturing enviornment some people actually anticipate the click so they might not actually get the full 70. So, by taking it another 90 degrees will put the fastener joint in the middle of the spec.
I've seen similar cases in the automotive and appliance assembly factories.

Mike

jermey1980

my arp studs were not broached i bought factory direct maybe two or three years ago.