Blue, don't fall for that. The treadmill obviously was not programmed to match the speed of the wheels.

I really am done with this thread.

 

I think it's the fact that you can't stand being proved wrong by me.

 

I guess I had too much time on my hands because I've followed this thread the last couple of days and I too thought the plane would not fly . Now however, after I read the READ THIS link, I think my rationalle was wrong . Let's keep the same scenario, but hook a chain (and no it won't break) to the tail of the plane - the other end to a stationary point on the solid ground (not the conveyer belt ). No matter how much thrust is provided by the plane, the plane never will move forward. The conveyer belt does not move either. But, the conveyer belt could move either way and do absolutely nothing to the plane's location in relation to the ground (not the conveyer belt). The only thing that would happen is the wheels would rotate. I have been converted, the plane would accelerate and would fly! I think this horse has been kicked enough for me though

 

" Now we know the conveyor has no negative effect on the air surrounding the plane so we address the propulsion of the plane; If its a propeller it creates the same effect as the wing ie. the props create lower pressure over the top of them and higher pressure underneath, pulling or accelerating the plane through the air. If its a jet then the engine creates thrust by Newton's third law of action and reaction. A gas, or working fluid, is accelerated by the engine, and the reaction to this acceleration produces a force on the engine pushing or accelerating it forward through the air.

So to sum it all up, for a plane on the conveyor belt not to be able to lift off the belt would have to affect the air surrounding the plane because thats where the plane derives its thrust which accelerates it through the air, and the planes acceleration through the air is how it creates lift.

P.S. The conveyor moving the ground underneath the plane at an equally negative velocity to the planes forward velocity would only affect the rotation speed of the wheels times 2."


the above is a quote from another website :http://forum.physorg.com/index.php?showtopic=2417&st=0

It pretty much explains what I am thinking. Check out the website there is like 21 pages of conversations

 

ANTI-FLIGHT IS RIGHT!!!!!

 

According to Rigid Body Dynamics, the linear speed of a perfect wheel at the point of contact between it and the ground is always zero, whether the wheel is rotating or not. Assuming the wheel is perfect and the speed that activates the conveyor is taken at this point, which wouldn’t be an unreasonable assumption, the conveyor would never activate. and the plane takes off as normal.

 

I can't believe some poeple just don't know when they are defeated!!

 

the bird will fly...face it fella's it will!

 

I think thoust protest too much.....

 

Way to go Mntom! I found that web page 3 days ago! I was hoping to string these non flying, the earth is flat, man will never go faster than the speed of sound, and the moon is made of cheese guys just alittle longer........

 

I won't be convinced until somone rigs up a runway length conveyor belt,
puts a plane on it, and tries to fly that sucker.

No Fly!

phox

 

OK

But what if you think about it this way: for a plane or any vehicle to move, with no wheel slip, the wheels turn. Lets say its a wheel with 6.28 ft circumference (2 ft diameter). It makes one rotation in 2 seconds. Doesn't that mean that any point on the outside of the wheel is moving at 3.14 ft/sec? I was assuming that this was the speed the conveyor would then move at, negating the plane's forward motion. Lets say there was only a tiny force being applied to the plane at this point--only enough to counteract rolling resistance. The plane is moving 0 ft/sec, the outside of the tire is moving at 3.14 ft/sec, and the conveyor belt is moving at 3.14 ft/sec. Apply a slightly greater force. The plane attempts to move again. Again, the conveyor matches the speed. Now we have the plane at 0 ft/sec, the wheels at 6.28 ft/sec, and the conveyor at 6.28 ft/sec. If you keep applying a greater force to the plane, the conveyor and wheels both will speed up rapidly until rolling resistance again equals the force applied to the plane. Want to apply a HUGE force from the beginning? The same thing will happen, only the conveyor and wheels will accelerate more rapidly.

I really feel that everything I just said has been mentioned before several times, just like the "Take-off guys'" arguments. We are getting nowhere with this--we both feel we're right and no one is willing to budge or accept what the other is saying. I think it's best for us just to agree to disagree and stop wasting bandwidth

 

HOLY JUICE BUCKETS!!! 19 pages and almost 300 posts in less than 6 days, now that's COOL!!!!


~Nick

 

Geico's original question stated "The conveyer belt is designed to exactly match the speed of the wheels at any given time, moving in the opposite direction of rotation."

The webpages "proof" had the conveyer moving the opposite direction of the plane, not the wheels.
And the conveyer was set to the plane's airspeed, not the wheel speed.

I still say, the answer to the original question as posted is,
The Plane Will Not Fly.


phox

 

Duly noted and recorded as an offical protest.


THANK YOU DTR!

To one and all who participated,

I got to tell you this has been the best thread I've posted in. Great debate, fun ribbing, respect for everyone's opinion, and best of all .... we all learned something! Not sure any of it's useful, but what the heck, we have learned something.

Congrats to the mods for letting it runs it course without locking it up! Sorry TOP! I'll bet we'll need another server just to store this baby!