Military Investigates Shooting
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Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Kansas City & Maysville, MO
A few things to point out:
!. We don't know for sure that the "insurgent" was unarmed. I'm sure the investigation will establish this fact one way or another.
2. Referring to him as a "prisoner" is a mischaracterization; he is not visibly tagged as such, not visibly under restraint (handcuffs, etc.) and definitely not under the control of the Marines who have just entered the room.
3. The fact that the "reporter" thinks he's unarmed and refers to him as a "prisoner" is not proof of either of these facts.
In some ways these distinctions won't make any difference, although they may keep that young Marine's tail out of a crack. On the other hand, NBC is handing a story with some propaganda value to the enemy no matter how the investigation turns out; one might hope they'd be more responsible than that, but apparently not.
!. We don't know for sure that the "insurgent" was unarmed. I'm sure the investigation will establish this fact one way or another.
2. Referring to him as a "prisoner" is a mischaracterization; he is not visibly tagged as such, not visibly under restraint (handcuffs, etc.) and definitely not under the control of the Marines who have just entered the room.
3. The fact that the "reporter" thinks he's unarmed and refers to him as a "prisoner" is not proof of either of these facts.
In some ways these distinctions won't make any difference, although they may keep that young Marine's tail out of a crack. On the other hand, NBC is handing a story with some propaganda value to the enemy no matter how the investigation turns out; one might hope they'd be more responsible than that, but apparently not.
Thats MR Hoss to you buddy!
Joined: Jul 2001
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From: Central Texas
Originally posted by AlpineRAM
The military will have to investigate internally, but for anybody outside of the US it will shurely look funny if the US military finds the soldier innocent. It will be like, well jeah, what a surprise
they find that one of their own is innocent - Only an investigation by an acknowledged international unbiased organisation can potentially reduce the impact this incident had on the way the US troops are seen by other nations. Not necessarily only nations the US is at war with at the moment.
The military will have to investigate internally, but for anybody outside of the US it will shurely look funny if the US military finds the soldier innocent. It will be like, well jeah, what a surprise
they find that one of their own is innocent - Only an investigation by an acknowledged international unbiased organisation can potentially reduce the impact this incident had on the way the US troops are seen by other nations. Not necessarily only nations the US is at war with at the moment.
And the "non-liberal" media is assuming that the shot person was at least an insurgent- (liberal word for terrorist- I don't think so- will add to that later)
I do also feel that the full story ain't out yet- so it's much too early to judge in either direction. My previous post was intended to line out some other possible alternatives to as what could have happened based on the material at my hands.
insurgent:
1. Rising in revolt against established authority, especially a government.
2. Rebelling against the leadership of a political party.
n.
One who is insurgent.
terrorist:
One that engages in acts or an act of terrorism.
adj.
Of or relating to terrorism.
So an insurgent can be anybody who is counteracting a regime in word and deed- a terrorist must fulfill some more criteria, but is not limited to opposing a regime. One of the criteria the terrrorist has to fulfill is that he's doing his activities in a covert manner- otherwise he'd be a combattant. Another point that's got to be fulfilled is that a terrorist is per definition committing acts that shall instill terror (fear) in the objective target. (Not to be mistaken with the victim!)
I do also feel that the full story ain't out yet- so it's much too early to judge in either direction. My previous post was intended to line out some other possible alternatives to as what could have happened based on the material at my hands.
insurgent:
1. Rising in revolt against established authority, especially a government.
2. Rebelling against the leadership of a political party.
n.
One who is insurgent.
terrorist:
One that engages in acts or an act of terrorism.
adj.
Of or relating to terrorism.
So an insurgent can be anybody who is counteracting a regime in word and deed- a terrorist must fulfill some more criteria, but is not limited to opposing a regime. One of the criteria the terrrorist has to fulfill is that he's doing his activities in a covert manner- otherwise he'd be a combattant. Another point that's got to be fulfilled is that a terrorist is per definition committing acts that shall instill terror (fear) in the objective target. (Not to be mistaken with the victim!)
PS- I like a spirited discussion, but I don't condone the actions of terrorists, murderers etc....
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Unfortyunatly our local news paper said the guy was from Pismo beach. Close to my neck of the woods, unfortunatly thats the kind of idiots we have here. Its war time, people die. I hope Mr photographer is soon captured by the enemy and they do there thing with him. He dont belong there, nor does anyone else trying to stir the pot.
Chapter President
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Rural Hall, NC
The media is there to get a "story". If anyone thinks for a second that a reporter won't step on the backs of every service man and woman to get ahead in his career, is STOOPID! I don't trust the media for nothing and like them less and less. Their bias is so transparant, even more so when it's on a subject going against their liberal beliefs.
The Marine is over there doing his duty while serving his country, risking his life everyday in a place that can only be discribed as hell, for about $2000 grand a month. Got shot in the face and was back at it the next day. He's a bad guy alright! 
Pin a medal on his chest and tell him you're doing a bang up job. Keep filling the enemies bodybags, Son!
The Marine is over there doing his duty while serving his country, risking his life everyday in a place that can only be discribed as hell, for about $2000 grand a month. Got shot in the face and was back at it the next day. He's a bad guy alright!
Pin a medal on his chest and tell him you're doing a bang up job. Keep filling the enemies bodybags, Son!
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Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Anchorage, AK
The liberal press and liberals will milk this incident to the last drop.
The biggest issue in play with them is to try and give Bush a black eye concerning this war. Getting the facts first and trying to understand the marine's position is not in play. I believe Matthews even referred to the terrorist as a man defending his country. Peaceful men, women and children of the city knew to raise their hands and be sent to safer locations. This pawn for the liberals preferred to play dead. Well, he is now dead!! I'm glad he is dead and wish the best for the marine.
Give the marine a break. He was kind enough to arrange transportation for the terrorist to meet his 72 virgins in terrorist heaven. I just wish all 72 virgins look like Arafat.
The biggest issue in play with them is to try and give Bush a black eye concerning this war. Getting the facts first and trying to understand the marine's position is not in play. I believe Matthews even referred to the terrorist as a man defending his country. Peaceful men, women and children of the city knew to raise their hands and be sent to safer locations. This pawn for the liberals preferred to play dead. Well, he is now dead!! I'm glad he is dead and wish the best for the marine.
Give the marine a break. He was kind enough to arrange transportation for the terrorist to meet his 72 virgins in terrorist heaven. I just wish all 72 virgins look like Arafat.
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This is a complex issue, but one thing I don't understand is all this knee-jerk moaning about the 'liberal press'. I've seen several stories about this incident on NBC/CBS/ABC (the worst of the worst, according to many of you) and in every case the report clearly stated that someone in the unit had been killed the prior day by a booby-trapped body and that such concerns were a real threat to US soldiers, along with other facts that might help explain the action the soldier took, and on the 'Today' show (let's hear more boos) it was even suggested by the 'liberal' network host during an interview that maybe the enemy, in booby-trapping bodies, were just reaping what they had sown. Sounds more like Fox News than NBC. Every story I saw presented a balanced view and was far from a 'let's try him before we hang him' journalistic ambush. If you are going to keep gnawing at the same old 'liberal press' bone at least come up with some specific examples instead of endless generalizations.
Thats MR Hoss to you buddy!
Joined: Jul 2001
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From: Central Texas
At this point everyone is running with the exact same story...the story given to them by Kevin Sites of NBC....the man looking to boost his career. When all of the facts of the incident are revealed I am quite certain that we will find that Mr. Sites didn't quite tell the whole story.
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Branchville, Alabama
Good thing I am not running that show. Encircle the town, drop leaflets on it that it will be eliminated, after the timelimit, make a parking lot out of it. Well, a desert anyway.
See that way there is no prisoner problem, Allah could figure it all out
See that way there is no prisoner problem, Allah could figure it all out
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From: Big Sky Country
Re: Military Investigates Shooting
Originally posted by xmarine
Military Investigates Shooting
Looks like the press is at it again ------
I say give that Marine a Medal for sending another terrorist to his maker !
Military Investigates Shooting
Looks like the press is at it again ------
I say give that Marine a Medal for sending another terrorist to his maker !
AMEN brother!
Shouldn't even be an investigation, not only that, the press shouldn't be there either. Being in Iraq sucks- people shooting mortars and rockets at you sucks.
When people are trying to kill you every day, stress becomes unreal. Combat stress is something that is very hard to understand unless you've been to combat. I love how the uninformed/ misinformed joe public likes to make conclusions about things they know little if nothing about.
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Re: Re: Military Investigates Shooting
Originally posted by scottrod
I love how the uninformed/ misinformed joe public likes to make conclusions about things they know little if nothing about.
I love how the uninformed/ misinformed joe public likes to make conclusions about things they know little if nothing about.
So, please name a single news organization that has come to the 'conclusion' that the soldier is guilty of a war crime, or any other crime. Just name one..?
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From: Big Sky Country
Re: Re: Re: Military Investigates Shooting
Originally posted by smiller
Who has done that? The news agency reported the incident, that's all. I have seen no 'conclusions' drawn by anyone... if anything I saw a lot of information presented to provide possible explainations for the soldier's action. By the way, the journalists are there at the US military's invitation. The Pentagon obviously must know that scenes of war will not always generate good PR, but apparently feels that in the long run it is best if the public sees the truth.
So, please name a single news organization that has come to the 'conclusion' that the soldier is guilty of a war crime, or any other crime. Just name one..?
Who has done that? The news agency reported the incident, that's all. I have seen no 'conclusions' drawn by anyone... if anything I saw a lot of information presented to provide possible explainations for the soldier's action. By the way, the journalists are there at the US military's invitation. The Pentagon obviously must know that scenes of war will not always generate good PR, but apparently feels that in the long run it is best if the public sees the truth.
So, please name a single news organization that has come to the 'conclusion' that the soldier is guilty of a war crime, or any other crime. Just name one..?
I said Joe public- like the ones I hear everyday crying about what's going on inside Iraq even though they only know what the media tells them.
Yes, I realize that to some Geraldo is a hero for hanging out with soldiers- to me, he's sensationalizing nothing more, nothing less.
The armed forces have their own journalists- time to send the rest packin'.
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From: Clearwater, FL
Since when does the media think they have the authority to divulge that kind of information?????? If the MILITARY is investigating it, then it needs to be CLASSIFIED!!!!! Sure, the media might not be saying where the US military is, or how many of them there are, or what kind of armament or equipment they have...but gee wiz...there IS a such thing as psychological warfare and I believe the liberal media is crashing the party! All the insurgents hear about the liberal media's statements and questions and they're motivated by it all. To them, we sound like a bunch of wusses with all the talk about 1000 military dead. They hear about that and they'll be looking to increase that number because it doesn't sound like very many to them.
The media just needs to get outta the front lines of the military. Restrict them to the military bases in-country.
The media just needs to get outta the front lines of the military. Restrict them to the military bases in-country.
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I don't think I said anything about a news agency drawing a conclusion - I said Joe public -
Since when does the media think they have the authority to divulge that kind of information?????? If the MILITARY is investigating it, then it needs to be CLASSIFIED!!!!!
Just heard a segment of Rush's show where he was bellowing about the media 'convicting' the soldier and making the terrorists out to be 'heros' (his words). Funny, he didn't quote any sources either... I wonder why...
Looking at informed comments like these I wonder just who really are the ones making assumptions and jumping to conclusions in this matter...
