People felt the need for God way before Jesus was introduced and in several accounts in the Bible these people communicated with God in various ways. But before Jesus, a sacrifice was needed. Jesus became the great sacrifice doing away with the formality of an impersonal relationship. Clayten I obviously believe in the Word of God but I'm not saying all other things are bad or that there are no other things that can make a person feel fulfilled but In my experience they are short lived. I think meditation is very powerful and benefitial but I can only sit still and meditate for so long before I want some sort of response. Heck half of praying could be considered meditation I talk a while and sit quietly and listen for awhile. Although I dont discredit these things I dont think they will get a person into heaven the Bible quoted Jesus saying "I am the way the truth and the life and that no man will enter the kingdom of heaven except through me.

 

I couldnt agree more I think it is wise to question all things but for me personally when I am done finding answers to my questions I always want to serve God. I'm really enjoying visiting with you guys thats what this site is all about.

 

I been reading these post now and I couldnt resist but to post. I also grew up in church and got away from it while in college as most people do. I am now starting to pray alot more and feel alot better since doing so. the topic has come up about faith and that there is no proof that there is a god. My thoughts are that everything didnt just appear here one day so there has to be a higher power. But the main point is that if there is a heaven and a hell eternity is alot longer than the 75 or so years we live here on this earth. So why take a chance and not get to spend eternity in heaven for a few short years of living a sinful life that you know is wrong. JMO Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven

 

Very well said JB.

 

Buddha also discouraged sacrifice.
Meditation is an act that takes time to master. When you master it, you will also get answers. Some mediators use a mantra (talking) while meditating. I also believe that pray is a form of meditation. These acts of prayer or meditation will give us psychological relief. But it does not explain the science side of the equation.

 

tbarbee1 posted Even if a person chooses christianity

there is a big difference between choosing christianity and being chosen by God. God must come to us, we cannot go to God.

Revelation 3:20 Basic English - See, I am waiting at the door and giving the sign; if my voice comes to any man's ears and he makes the door open, I will come in to him, and will take food with him and he with me.

Thats the way it is. No more Mosiac law. No more sacrifices. Christ changed it all. Christ is our "go between", to get to the Father.

 

True bla bla bla ten character limit.

 

But the main point is that if there is a heaven and a hell eternity is alot longer than the 75 or so years we live here on this earth. So why take a chance and not get to spend eternity in heaven for a few short years of living a sinful life that you know is wrong. JMO Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven[/QUOTE]



This idea came up in an earlier post too.

Isn't that just hedging your bet? Maybe not really believing but afraid the consequences could be so bad that you are willing to play along.

If you really believe, it's not a bet, is it?

And if it is just covering your bases, will that get you there? In other words, can you fool God?

It seems most here, that are believers, are so clear about it that nothing will interfere with their faith.

Again, I'm just curious, not trying to undermine your beliefs.

John

 

This idea came up in an earlier post too.

Isn't that just hedging your bet? Maybe not really believing but afraid the consequences could be so bad that you are willing to play along.

If you really believe, it's not a bet, is it?

And if it is just covering your bases, will that get you there? In other words, can you fool God?

It seems most here, that are believers, are so clear about it that nothing will interfere with their faith.

Again, I'm just curious, not trying to undermine your beliefs.

John[/QUOTE]

This is a good point Raspy.

No I dont think you can fool God. I think you have to do everything whole heartedly and that is a doubt I had as a kid are you really serving God because you want to or are you scared of the consequences of not following him??? I realized that for me the benifits of serving God were greater than my fear of the consequences. Case in point even if it could be proven that there was no eternity no Heaven or Hell I would live my life just as I am right now. So for me personally it is a choice of having that feeling I mentioned earlier the feeling that comes from being in the will of God and knowing/believing I am doing the right thing.

 

God chose all of us when he sent his Son to die for our sins and you are exactly right he is the Great Sacrifice.

 

as a rule, i avoid talking politics or religion. and Lord knows (no pun intended) that i cant make as good of arguments as you guys are.

my take is this: a lot of the complaints im hearing from y'all, and the reason a couple of you feel the way you do, is based on the CHURCH, not God. I consider myself Christian.

i do not know who will or will not go to heaven or hell.

I do not take offense to you not beleiving.

its not up to me to decide whats right or wrong, and me telling you its wrong wont help a thing.

I think that (to some extent) a seperation of church and state is a good thing.

i was baptised and saved in a baptist church but never felt like the church services spoke to me, nor were they particularly uplifting. i have since found a new church that talks about everyday things and enjoy it much more, although i admit i dont go as often as i probably should. i could be dead wrong, but i feel the closest to God on a Sunday morning out in nature. i may be fishing, or hunting, or jsut watching the sunrise, but i get more out of prayer out there on my own than i ever have in church. i dont know if thats right or wrong, but i know thats what makes ME feel close to God. I guess what im getting at, is that i 100% beleive in God and Jesus, but i dont so much beleive in "organized religion". the church i go to now is a non-denominational and is so different from the church i grew up in that its funny. but i think, (IMO) faith is a personal thing, and i take more from it now than i ever did in a force fed setting.

i think im some weird left wing/right wing hybrid Christian

sorry for the long post, not sure if that makes sense or not.....

EDIT: one more thing, regarding others praying for you, i am 100% certain that the reason i am where i am at right now is because of others prayers regarding me. my (now) wife particularly

 

heres the thing I struggled with for the longest on whether to believe or not. or just go along with what you were supposed to believe. But when you really ask god to show you the right things to do and to help you make the right decisions and and ask god to show you certain things. To me when all that stuff starts happening for you or whatever the case may be that is enough evidence for me to believe and makes me strive every day to get closer to god. I look forward every day to get up and see what god has in store for me that day. I guess we will all find out someday since none of us have experienced life after death. but for me there is way to much evidence to not believe in god. I could say so much about my experiences but I get tired of typing.

 

whitebuffalo,

You are making a lot of sense to me. I go out of my way to avoid "organized religion". But the inner peace you speak of, your acceptance of others and your humble demeanor are what, I think, it's all about.

It's good to share the planet with you.


John

 

im glad to hear (honestly!) that im not the only one


back at ya!

 

I agree with both of you I have no use for religion and my way is best thinking that sometimes comes along with denominations. I go to a non denominational church here in tulsa but I go to stay connected and grounded I think people no matter what their belief should be grounded and tied to something to keep you from getiing out of wack.So to speak. I dont feel like there are many churches today that are what God set them up to be. A church is supposed to be a place you can feel comfortable and fellowship and get refilled so to speak by other belivers kinda like stopping into a fuel station. Your spiritual and physical bodys are only as good as what you put into them trash in trash out you get the point and that is where the church is suposed to come in. Alot of churches are the exact opposite and have been turned into social clubs used for gossipping and making people feel bad about themselves because they had to work last Sunday and couldnt make it to church. Folks have to understand that when they see a dysfunctional church or christian they are not seeing God but rather another human being trying to become more like God. This is where alot of people get distracted and there have been alot of warped views about God that stemmed from the mistake of a human. Well he said he is supposed to be a christian and the stoning begins here and this stems from the supposed christian acting like he is better than his non christian counter parts on the street and then critisizing him at church etc... That is in no way an example of the Love of God Jesus had time for everyone the Bible teaches to love your neighbor as you love your self. Alot of the people I know who claim to not believe in God etc... know better but were put in a situation in a church group that hurt them emotionally and are unable to get over the feelings of bitterness towards God for letting them get hurt when in fact it wasn't God who hurt them but simply another human being who was in the wrong and not walking in Love. These types of things skew some peoples view of God all together but even this problem usually comes from focusing on people rather than God the Bible says If you put your faith in man he will fail you. It doesnt say Its a possibility it says he will. This is where most folks get hurt instead of seeing peers leaders etc.. as a person with the same problems I have we tend to elevate people in leadership positions above where they should be and are then crushed to see that they make mistakes. Trust me. If we would have had our focus on God rather than man we would have bent down helped the guy up and went on trying to do better next time. Because God is constant people are not and never will be.