If they can't afford the gas to get to Lollapalooza, maybe they'll let them tap a couple wells.

 

just_cranking: I don't want to put down the USA, and I don't want to put Europe on a pedestal. I hope that you are happy with your decision to immigrate in the USA. I have spent quite some time there in my youth, but then I didn't think about immigrating. Still I have the due respect for the accomplishments of the USA, and for the efforts the USA has undertaken in WW2 to free Europe. <br><br>One thing the US stands for is freedom of speech. (And freedom of thought)<br>I think it's inevitable that different countries have different points of view. <br>And since the USA is an advocate of free speech it will have to accept that other countries may dissent. If freedom of speech is only granted as long as what is said is what the you want to hear it's no longer freedom of speech.<br><br>What are my intentions when posting stuff like that?<br>My intention is to show people on this forum how certain aspects of the conduct of the USA are perceived here in Europe, especially in Austria. <br>Sometimes I do convey my personal opinion, and state that it's based on the information I have. <br>I wouldn't be on this board if I was anti-american. I wouldn't drive my Mexican truck ;D<br><br>AlpineRAM

 

AlpineRAM,<br>That’s really the point though (and I’m not speaking about you personally) but for citizens of socialist countries which don’t allow them to live a truly free life (right to speak one’s mind, BEAR ARMS, etc) don’t have a right to criticize what we have. Of course they’re peeved because the very thing they criticize is exactly what they want. Put into perspective, it’s not thousands and millions of Americans that immigrate to other nations to live work and die there. It’s thousands upon millions of us, foreigners that come over here to be truly free and say whatever you want and do what we want, including being successful. So I agree and would fight for any American citizen/resident to dissent, but that doesn’t entitle citizens of foreign soils to that. That is a huge misconception throughout the world, the best mankind has produced so far, the Constitution does not apply to the French, German or any else outside of our borders. My point in all of this is other countries need to clean up their own back yard before talking crap about us.<br>

 

Unfortunately for me, my IP provider decided this was the time to have server failure so I have been absent from my duties here.<br><br> While I think there are good points raised here from all points of view, it is obvious this will only lead to more deeper discussions and also eventually lose the little civility that has remained.<br><br> Lets not lose site of the fact that this site is about diesel trucks and not politics, there can be NO clear cut winner in these type of debates here. Only a chance for hurt feelings and eventual arguments gone awry.<br><br>

 

justcranking:<br>I think you got me wrong. The citizens of the former sovjet union were entitled to the right to criticize the USA and all other capitalist countries. They were not entitled to criticize their own system.<br><br>I may dissent on your limitation to the freedom of speech.<br>1st) The Austrian constitution grants me the right to it.<br>2nd) As I read the US constitution it does not limit the right to free speech to US citizens. AFAIK it does not limit it at all. Therefore I feel backed in my right to free speech by the constitution of the country I reside in and the country where the main audience of this board resides in.<br><br>About cleaning up the backjard before talking crap..... Read the bible.. He who has a clear conscience throw the first stone.... and You see the splinter in my eye but not the beam in yours...<br><br>About immigration: I know that many more people immigrate in the USA than emmigrate from the USA. Lot's of people immigrate to European countries too.<br>But how much of these folks do immigrate into first world countries for purely economical reasons ? (I think that this is not to be put down and a very valid reason to immigrate- free pursuit of happiness)<br><br>If I read you correctly your view of the constitution is that as long as you are an US citizen you are entitled to free speech and the rest of the world has to shut up if they want to say something the USA doesn't want to hear.<br>What I learned in school in Europe, and what I learned in school in Pittsburgh Pennsilvania was a little bit different.<br><br>AlpineRAM<br>

 

AlpineRAM,<br>I think we can sit here for the next three months discussing these important issues, but as Mr. Ellis stated this particular forum is for diesels. I will say I don’t know you personally so therefore I wasn’t attacking you personally. If you’d like I’d be more than happy to exchange emails and we can continue that way if not that’s cool too.<br>

 

I think we shall continue the discussion via IM on this board. <br>I'd love to discuss this in a more private mannr as to not disturb the main target of this board.<br><br>AlpineRAM

 

Thank you Gentlemen, I know all of us have opinions on this matter, but my concern is to keep things on a friendly basis here for everyone.<br><br> I applaud your decision to take the matter into PM where you can discuss it in a much more open fashion. <br><br>

 

I am not sure how anyone kept this civil :

 

It's the aura sounding this site. ;D<br><br>Only positive vibes........

 

[quote author=JCL123 link=board=10;threadid=17113;start=15#160806 date=1058402329]<br>I am not sure how anyone kept this civil :<br>[/quote]<br>Hoss is on vacation!<br> ;D

 

I usually stay clear of discussions that involve religion, politics and money, but for some reason my mother-in-law and I always get into something about religion and it gets very heated. These types of discussions usually end up getting personal and feelings are offended then in turn puches are thrown. Don't get me wrong it is nice that we can discuss these types of things, but When I go to DTR I just want to learn about diesels. ;D

 

[quote author=WHIFF link=board=10;threadid=17113;start=15#160817 date=1058404399]<br>[quote author=JCL123 link=board=10;threadid=17113;start=15#160806 date=1058402329]<br>I am not sure how anyone kept this civil :<br>[/quote]<br>Hoss is on vacation!<br> ;D<br>[/quote]<br><br>NOW THAT CRACKS ME UP ;D ;D ;D

 

I'll bet if I started a Diesel thread in &quot;other&quot;, it would get moved to &quot;diesel&quot;.