Border Wall
12-21-2005, 08:26 AM
#1
Chapter President
Thread Starter
Border Wall
These people have used illeagle imigration and lived off of us for so long, they now expect it. Especially the Mexican Government! If they want to come here that bad....let them do it LEAGLLY.
Mexico angrily vows to block proposed U.S. border wall
By Mark Stevenson
Associated Press
MEXICO CITY - The Mexican government, angered by a U.S. proposal to extend a wall along the border to keep out migrants, pledged Tuesday to block the plan and organize an international campaign against it.
Facing a growing tide of anti-immigrant sentiment north of the border, the Mexican government has taken out ads urging Mexican workers to denounce rights violations in the United States. It also is hiring an American public-relations firm to improve its image and counter growing U.S. concerns about immigration.
Mexican President Vicente Fox denounced the U.S. measures, passed by the House of Representatives on Friday, as ``shameful'' and his foreign minister, Luis Ernesto Derbez, echoed his complaints on Tuesday.
``Mexico is not going to bear, it is not going to permit, and it will not allow a stupid thing like this wall,'' Derbez said.
``What has to be done is to raise a storm of criticism, as is already happening, against this,'' he said, promising to turn other countries against the plan.
Some stretches of the U.S.-Mexico border are already marked by fences, but in some heavily trafficked sections walls have already been erected by the United States, often using 10-foot-high sections of military surplus steel. Those sections, which typically run several miles, can be found in southern Arizona and California.
It's hard to underestimate the ill-feeling the proposal has generated in Mexico, where editorial pages are dominated by cartoons of Uncle Sam putting up walls bearing anti-Mexican messages.
Many Mexicans, especially those who have spent time working in the United States, feel the proposal is a slap in the face to those who work hard and contribute to the U.S. economy.
Fernando Robledo, 42, of the western state of Zacatecas, says the proposals could stem migration and disrupt families by breaking cross-border ties.
``When people heard this, it worried everybody, because this will affect everybody in some way, and their families,'' Robledo said. ``They were incredulous. How could they do this, propose something like this?''
Robledo, whose son and mother are U.S. citizens, predicted the measure ``would unleash conflict within the United States'' as small businesses fail for lack of workers.
He said many Mexicans felt betrayed by the anti-immigrant sentiment.
``We learned to believe in the United States. We have a binational life,'' he said of Zacatecas, a state that has been sending migrants north for more than a century. ``It isn't just a feeling of rejection. It's against what we see as part of our life, our culture, our territory.''
Monday, the Mexican government announced it had hired Allyn & Company, a Dallas-based public-relations company to help improve Mexico's image and stem the immigration backlash.
``If people in the U.S. and Canada had an accurate view of the success of democracy, political stability and economic prosperity in Mexico, it would improve their views on specific bilateral issues like immigration and border security,'' Rob Allyn, president of the PR firm, told the Associated Press on Tuesday.
Mexico is also encouraging U.S. church, community and business groups to oppose the proposal.
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Mexico angrily vows to block proposed U.S. border wall
By Mark Stevenson
Associated Press
MEXICO CITY - The Mexican government, angered by a U.S. proposal to extend a wall along the border to keep out migrants, pledged Tuesday to block the plan and organize an international campaign against it.
Facing a growing tide of anti-immigrant sentiment north of the border, the Mexican government has taken out ads urging Mexican workers to denounce rights violations in the United States. It also is hiring an American public-relations firm to improve its image and counter growing U.S. concerns about immigration.
Mexican President Vicente Fox denounced the U.S. measures, passed by the House of Representatives on Friday, as ``shameful'' and his foreign minister, Luis Ernesto Derbez, echoed his complaints on Tuesday.
``Mexico is not going to bear, it is not going to permit, and it will not allow a stupid thing like this wall,'' Derbez said.
``What has to be done is to raise a storm of criticism, as is already happening, against this,'' he said, promising to turn other countries against the plan.
Some stretches of the U.S.-Mexico border are already marked by fences, but in some heavily trafficked sections walls have already been erected by the United States, often using 10-foot-high sections of military surplus steel. Those sections, which typically run several miles, can be found in southern Arizona and California.
It's hard to underestimate the ill-feeling the proposal has generated in Mexico, where editorial pages are dominated by cartoons of Uncle Sam putting up walls bearing anti-Mexican messages.
Many Mexicans, especially those who have spent time working in the United States, feel the proposal is a slap in the face to those who work hard and contribute to the U.S. economy.
Fernando Robledo, 42, of the western state of Zacatecas, says the proposals could stem migration and disrupt families by breaking cross-border ties.
``When people heard this, it worried everybody, because this will affect everybody in some way, and their families,'' Robledo said. ``They were incredulous. How could they do this, propose something like this?''
Robledo, whose son and mother are U.S. citizens, predicted the measure ``would unleash conflict within the United States'' as small businesses fail for lack of workers.
He said many Mexicans felt betrayed by the anti-immigrant sentiment.
``We learned to believe in the United States. We have a binational life,'' he said of Zacatecas, a state that has been sending migrants north for more than a century. ``It isn't just a feeling of rejection. It's against what we see as part of our life, our culture, our territory.''
Monday, the Mexican government announced it had hired Allyn & Company, a Dallas-based public-relations company to help improve Mexico's image and stem the immigration backlash.
``If people in the U.S. and Canada had an accurate view of the success of democracy, political stability and economic prosperity in Mexico, it would improve their views on specific bilateral issues like immigration and border security,'' Rob Allyn, president of the PR firm, told the Associated Press on Tuesday.
Mexico is also encouraging U.S. church, community and business groups to oppose the proposal.
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12-21-2005, 08:48 AM
#3
Administrator / Scooter Bum
And when produce at the grocery store cost 10 times its current price, construction costs double, lawn service prices triple, Child care costs quadruple, and the local eatery requires you to wash your own dishes..........what they gonna do? 
12-21-2005, 09:12 AM
#5
Chapter President
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Shovelhead
And when produce at the grocery store cost 10 times its current price, construction costs double, lawn service prices triple, Child care costs quadruple, and the local eatery requires you to wash your own dishes..........what they gonna do?
It's amazing how people don't want to shop at Wal Mart because they sell Chinese products, but it's OK to save money by using illeagle, non tax paying, non self supporting labor that eats up our medical care and welfare systems. Why is not OK for Wal Mart employees to use public health systems, but it's OK for illeagles?
12-21-2005, 09:29 AM
#6
Administrator / Scooter Bum
An example, Much of the produce we eat is picked by migrant workers.
Why? Because NOBODY ELSE wants to do the work.
Why do contractors want to use migrant workers?
2 reasons.
They work for less money, but the primary reason......they will WORK 8 hours for 8 hour's pay.
How many Hispanics were hijacking aircraft on 9-11?
My wife has attempted on 3 occasions to get visas for members of her family to come to the US from Peru for A VISIT.
They have been denied without explanation each time.
Our immigration policies are determined on a whim, (or a bribe).
The AMERICAN embassy in Peru requires a $100 bill (in cash) be attached to each visa application. NOT refundable if denied.
No explanation if denied.
As you can tell, I'm not a big fan of the US immigration offices.
Why? Because NOBODY ELSE wants to do the work.
Why do contractors want to use migrant workers?
2 reasons.
They work for less money, but the primary reason......they will WORK 8 hours for 8 hour's pay.
How many Hispanics were hijacking aircraft on 9-11?
My wife has attempted on 3 occasions to get visas for members of her family to come to the US from Peru for A VISIT.
They have been denied without explanation each time.
Our immigration policies are determined on a whim, (or a bribe).
The AMERICAN embassy in Peru requires a $100 bill (in cash) be attached to each visa application. NOT refundable if denied.
No explanation if denied.
As you can tell, I'm not a big fan of the US immigration offices.
12-21-2005, 09:33 AM
#7
" Build it BIG", exactly. Unfortunatly the ACLU will get involved and shoot it down because we dont have the right to stop someone from a better life at tax payers expense. Its out of control regardless of what anyone thinks. I work close to the dubbed by the city council "All American City" I never could figure this one out cause its 65% illegals and most of the rest are "legal non english speaking types" the new America? NOT. Sorry to sound like a black cloud and racist but it sucks when one drive to a neighboring city and I cant even understand what the signs,people or bill boards are saying.
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12-21-2005, 09:45 AM
#8
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Just to start off, I do beleive something has to be done to stop illegals from entering this country and getting the ones already here out. But after we spent so many years opposing the Berlin wall what right do we have to build one of our own now. In our role as the worlds police have we really grown so brash that we can tell them to tear theirs down and then we build one ourselves.
12-21-2005, 10:14 AM
#9
DTR'S Chaplain
We are not dividing the USA as the Berlin wall Divided germany.
We are dividing a Foriegn Nation from us.
We are dividing a Foriegn Nation from us.
Originally Posted by 99 cummins
Just to start off, I do beleive something has to be done to stop illegals from entering this country and getting the ones already here out. But after we spent so many years opposing the Berlin wall what right do we have to build one of our own now. In our role as the worlds police have we really grown so brash that we can tell them to tear theirs down and then we build one ourselves.
12-21-2005, 10:35 AM
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According to the soviet side of that wall it wasn't one nation, just as we don't view the U.S. and Mexico as one nation, but the Mexicans do. Just as mentioned earlier they view this as cutting them off from there friends , neighbors and relatives that are in this country. My personal opinion is that we just need to turn Mexico into one of our states and take control of their oil in exchange for bringing them into the new century. But to be fair in this matter you have to see it from both sides of this wall.
12-21-2005, 10:40 AM
#11
I pay my taxes and don't hire illegals for my businesses or personal property work.
I guess I'm in the minority by Shovel's point of view?
Who really bebefits from the hiring of these hundred of thousands immigrants? Do you all really believe that the cost of getting your lawn cut is going to sky rocket, or are the business owners making out like bandits by not having to pay a fair wage?
Now then, the point that we can't get the white people to do these jobs because they would rather sit home on welfare is a different argument.
I've been around immigrant labor, some of it legal, some illegal. These people are getting the job done, (it's hot out there). If they would just get their papers we would have mncuh less to complain about here.
I guess I'm in the minority by Shovel's point of view?
Who really bebefits from the hiring of these hundred of thousands immigrants? Do you all really believe that the cost of getting your lawn cut is going to sky rocket, or are the business owners making out like bandits by not having to pay a fair wage?
Now then, the point that we can't get the white people to do these jobs because they would rather sit home on welfare is a different argument.
I've been around immigrant labor, some of it legal, some illegal. These people are getting the job done, (it's hot out there). If they would just get their papers we would have mncuh less to complain about here.
12-21-2005, 10:47 AM
#12
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Originally Posted by Shovelhead
An example, Much of the produce we eat is picked by migrant workers.
Why? Because NOBODY ELSE wants to do the work.
Why do contractors want to use migrant workers?
2 reasons.
They work for less money, but the primary reason......they will WORK 8 hours for 8 hour's pay.
How many Hispanics were hijacking aircraft on 9-11?
My wife has attempted on 3 occasions to get visas for members of her family to come to the US from Peru for A VISIT.
They have been denied without explanation each time.
Our immigration policies are determined on a whim, (or a bribe).
The AMERICAN embassy in Peru requires a $100 bill (in cash) be attached to each visa application. NOT refundable if denied.
No explanation if denied.
As you can tell, I'm not a big fan of the US immigration offices.
Why? Because NOBODY ELSE wants to do the work.
Why do contractors want to use migrant workers?
2 reasons.
They work for less money, but the primary reason......they will WORK 8 hours for 8 hour's pay.
How many Hispanics were hijacking aircraft on 9-11?
My wife has attempted on 3 occasions to get visas for members of her family to come to the US from Peru for A VISIT.
They have been denied without explanation each time.
Our immigration policies are determined on a whim, (or a bribe).
The AMERICAN embassy in Peru requires a $100 bill (in cash) be attached to each visa application. NOT refundable if denied.
No explanation if denied.
As you can tell, I'm not a big fan of the US immigration offices.
It took me 7 years to get my wife’s permanent resident card (green card). That is a ridiculous amount of time. There is no way the farmers would survive if they shut down the borders, and forced people to legally enter to work. Most produce would rot in the field with no one to pick it.
The US has been bringing immigrants from South America for at least 70 years. My grandfather was recruited in a tiny little town in the State of Oaxaca during WW2. They brought him to work the fields because there was no one to work them... Well there still isn’t any one to work them, the US got used to the immigrant labor, now there is no way they can sustain the farm lands with out it.
I guarantee you that if there were lines of American Citizens (including my self) waiting for a farm job they would get them.... but the people standing in line for these jobs are ALL illegal immigrants, no one else will do the work.
12-21-2005, 10:47 AM
#13
Top's Younger Twin
Theres even talk of doing that between Canada and the USA...might as well keep going and wall the entire good ole USA in...wouldn't that look perty.
USA started threatening a wall for the 49th because of a squabble between one of their reps and one of ours...bringing up drug smuggling as the reason.
When talking to the folks at the USA side...they enlightened me that the drug trade moves back and forth at about the same rate but they catch more coming in then we do. Strange how its going both ways..supply, demand, quality? LOL
USA started threatening a wall for the 49th because of a squabble between one of their reps and one of ours...bringing up drug smuggling as the reason.
When talking to the folks at the USA side...they enlightened me that the drug trade moves back and forth at about the same rate but they catch more coming in then we do. Strange how its going both ways..supply, demand, quality? LOL
12-21-2005, 10:50 AM
#14
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If they come to America they need to do it legally. I hate to say it, but try to find an American kid in their early 20's that will do the same jobs the Hispanics do. They don't want to work hard. I've been involved with hiring/firing at my company and the "illegals" are the hardest working people out there for the minimum wage jobs. I don't think they should be here illegally either, but until ALL RACES of people in America get over thinking they are "entitled" to a living and start working for it, this kind of thing is going to happen.
12-21-2005, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by apache
" Build it BIG", exactly. Unfortunatly the ACLU will get involved and shoot it down because we dont have the right to stop someone from a better life at tax payers expense. Its out of control regardless of what anyone thinks. I work close to the dubbed by the city council "All American City" I never could figure this one out cause its 65% illegals and most of the rest are "legal non english speaking types" the new America? NOT. Sorry to sound like a black cloud and racist but it sucks when one drive to a neighboring city and I cant even understand what the signs,people or bill boards are saying.
Most immigrant workers come here do the job and go home after the season. They take none of your taxes.