Hi guys,

I have some questions about timing and why my ve pump won't start. I just installed the pump on this '93 W350 it has sat for a year. The pump has good fuel pressure at the injectors and I actually pulled an injector and cranked the engine and it is indeed firing the injector. I marked the pump gear when I pulled it off with a sharpee and replaced gear no start. I just did a search and read that the VE pump is timed to the "E" mark on the gear. I was off by 2 teeth. I took off the gear and retimed it to the "E" mark still no go. Cranks good and hard but will not kick over. I can not find a good explanation on the indicator method of timing/checking the timing on the pump. #1 am I on the right track in the most likely cause for a no start when I have verified fuel to the injectors is timing. #2 could I have not enough fuel to start the engine even though I can physically see the fuel fire out of the injector. #3 what about the letter "E" for timing mark is there any way I could be 180degrees out. I am aligning it with the single "O" mark on the cam gear there is a "OO" mark 180 out that I assumed aligned with the crankshaft. Any inpu would be much apreciated.
-Greg Beaman

 

This will walk you through the process: http://dodgeram.info/tsb/recalls/605.htm

 

thank you for the nice install info. This doesn't adress the issue of the pump gear timing however or the issue of confirming timing with a dial indicator which were my main concerns any other input on whether a no start but a firing injector is a timing issue. Thanks
-Greg

 

My Dodge FSM shows "E" aligning with "C".

My Cummins book shows "E" with "O" like you said. Is there a "C" on the cam gear?

 

no I don't believe there is a "C" on the cam gear there are a whole bunch of letters on the pump gear. I know there is a "C" and an "E" and a minimum of two others. I will inspect the cam gear better in the morning I know there is an "0" and "00" marking on the cam gear. Thanks for looking. What do you think does my issue sound like timing?
Thanks again
-Greg

 

Yeah, if it's squirting fuel and won't light off the timing has got to be off by a good bit.

 

Here is the dial indicator procedure:

Pull your front valve cover so you can see your valve rockers.

Roll your engine to TDC on number 1, if you have doubts as to being 180 degrees off, use a mechanics stethascope and listen for the tell tale compression hiss on number 1, and watch to be sure both valves are closed.

Use a valve spring compressor and pop the valve spring keepers off, and then drop the #1 exhaust valve to the top of the piston.

Then use your dial indicator to read the maximum height of #1 exhaust valve when the piston pushes it all the way to the top. Maximum lift will be TDC. It is a good idea to use some paint and mark both your timing gear case cover and the timing mark on the damper.

Once you have TDC clearly defined, you can match your #1 pump impulse to that reference.

Do not worry about #1 being tough to reinstall the valve spring keepers, as the piston will hold it up enough for the spring compressor to properly function.

Your issue sounds exactly like you have the camshaft rotated 180 degrees from TDC.

If you do not want to go the trouble of fooling with the valves and a dial indicator, pull the stamped steel timing gearcase cover and match the crankshaft gear reference mark between the two reference marks on the cam gear, then the reference mark for the pump gear will be exactly where it should be relative to the cam gear.

 

Sounds great! I just made an adapter to screw into then end of the injector pump and measure the travel of the plunger in the head. I guess I have to take all the injector lines back off to install the indicator...? I will try rotating the crankshaft to the timing marks you spoke of since I already have the gear cover off and see where the dial indicator is when I arrive at the timing marks. It looks as if the plunger has about .125" of travel from high to low at what point will it fire the injector in this stroke? Is it at the very end of its travel or somewhere before it? Thanks for all of your help
-Greg Beaman

 

Usually the timing is expressed as mm of lift @ TDC. 1.5 - 1.7 mm would be a good place to start. This will not help you if you are 180 degrees out, as the plunger feeds all 6 cylinders.

 

Have you tried engaging the timing pin on the back of the timing case, under the VE? When that pin pops in, you're at TDC compression on #1, within a degree or two. Now install your pump gear in such a way that the keyway for the VE is pointing to about 5:30 --notice the photo about halfway down the page in the link to dodgeram.org in one of the above posts. Now the 'E' on the pump gear should line up nicely with SOMETHING on the cam gear...I just had mine apart and can't for the life of me remember what kind of mark was on the cam gear The timing pin is a PITA to use, but it works. You won't need your timing exact to get her to fire. They're pretty tolerant as long as the marks are lined up.

 

The timing pin is a PITA to use
I fabricated a little tool for removing and reinstalling the timing pin. After removal of the timing pin I take the "O" ring off the timing pin and reinsert the pin in the whole. It is now very easy to keep pressure on the pin with the right hand while the engine is turned over with the left hand with a socket and ratchet on the alternator nut. Don't forget to reinstall the "O" ring.

 

AIK: Checked out your gallery pics and that is one slick setup you have for the timing pin! Gonna have to build me one of those

 

be sure to check for oil pressure if you turn engine with alternator nut, as this turns engine backwards and sometimes you will lose the prime in your oil pump