gofastman

Merrick....If you would read further, i did take the turbo off the truck and found that there is NO OIL IN EITHER SIDE OF THE TURBO HOUSING!!!!!!

Now the bearing in the turbo is bad and i have one coming right now, but while the turbo was on the ground, i started and ran the truck, it was still smoking coming out of the exhaust manifold, so it tells me and i LISTENED to him, that the turbo is not leaking oil.

CTD NUT

Since diesels don't have much of any vacuum to speak of, worn valve seals won't cause a lot of oil to get into the cylinders and usually worn valve seals will leak less when the engine is hot and more when it is cold - that is just a rule of thumb, not set it stone so take that for what it is worth. Sad to say, but if you are satisfied that niether the compressor or turbine side of the turbo is leaking oil, you are likely left with worn piston rings - which, BTW, typically worn oil control rings leak more on a hot engine. On these ultra tall pistons in an engine with a good rod ratio like our CTD's, the pistons rocking in the bores is virtually non-existent - even on a high mileage engine, so, usually when oil control rings are worn, so to, are the compression rings.....a compression test should quickly identify the problem or rule it out since ring wear is relatively even on these pistons.

SBishop

I think you have worn valve stems/seals. If that is the orginal head assembly then it definitely has some high mileage with associated wear issues.

gofastman

Ok here is the update, found that the oil had a fuel smell to it and changed the oil and filter. After start up and let it warm up, found the blue smoke had changed color to a more grey than blue, which may be white other than grey.....After a few phone calls and talking to you all i seem to have more people saying injectors giving the problem. I have it to go in to the dealer to have all the injectors pulled and checked to figure this out.
Now for all that talked about the turbo....I have checked the turbo 2 times on bothsides and found NO oil at all....now there is play in the bearing, so i have a new turbo coming to me right now will have it on monday also....so with all that i should fix this thing....I will post more as things begin to happen on monday.
Thanks to all that gave me a hand with this problem....it is a great board to be part of.
Thanks again to all
Allen

smokindog

Allen,

I hope you get the problem figured out. Bill, a.k.a. Infidel, was simply suggesting the most common and cheapest diagnosis.

One of the reasons that I question the injector is because you have on 03 HPCR. I haven't heard of any 03's or 04's with injector problems. All of the 04.5+ 600's & 610's are the injector eaters because of that third injection event. I'm not saying that it couldn't be the case, just that "I" haven't heard of it yet. With the miles you have on it it certainly could be an injector. The other reason is because you stated you were losing oil. Typically when you have a bad stick it will make oil, not take it. When my buddy's 04.5 popped the #1 stick he lost 1/4 tank of fuel in about 20 miles because the injector dumped fuel into the cranckase, then started dumping a fuel and oil (really nasty smoke) mixture out the blow by tube, and took out the seal on the turbine side of the shaft. When we got the turbo off the turbine has actually snapped off the shaft and was sitting loose in the housing.

Make absolutely sure that the dealer has a qualified diesel tech who has performed more than just one or two overhauls before you let them even touch your truck. If you sense even the slightest hint of incompetence I would suggest taking it over to a Cummins service facility. Our 24V ISB is utilized in a whole shlew of other trucks and the Cummins techs are very familiar with them.

TORQUE

Now that you have ruled turbo out(for this specific problem), and found fuel smell in your engine oil, it is a leaky injector(there has been some issues with injectors dribbling, then sticking open even on early 03-04 3rd gens). Get to qualified diesel tech equipped dealer asap, as fuel in oil will cause your engine to burn oil afterwards, if left that way for even a short time.

When you get fuel in oil it can cause cylinder washdown, which takes oil lubricating qualities away from piston, rings and cylinder, and causing potential other internal wear INCLUDING TURBO. As you are over any warranty on engine(305,000kms or miles), hopefully it has not caused much irreversible internal wear/damage(signs are oil burning/smoking exhaust)

gofastman

Update.....Dealer claims that there is nothing wrong with injectors, I asked them did they pull each injector and test, they say no they dont do that, they do it by the computer kill injector test.
If the injector is leaking, is that computer going to tell them this or just it is working or not working? So they are claiming that it is a internal problem but they dont know what....They would have to tear the engine down to find this out, cost for teardown and diagnoses is 2300.00 .
Give me some advice here. i cant think it is something internal it run to well for that i think, i may be wrong here.
Give me some suggestions.
Thanks,
Allen

JKM

Go back up and read CTD NUT's post , he just explained what you need to do next.

gofastman

Just recieved call from dealer, tests show no. 5 cylinder is weak. Not sure what the problem is, they are going to pull the head and determine what has gone bad.....Since i had a short block installed 57000 miles ago, they are not discounting that the block has failed, If it has failed then this whole job is covered under the warrenty on the block....but if it is the head then this is all mine to pay for.....so the hope is that it is the block gone bad.....now i have already considered since they will have it apart, and it is a block problem, i will have them install a long block, that will take care of all internel problems...
If you all have any other suggestion please let me know.
Thanks,
Allen

Old Iron

On my 98.5 when the injection pump started to go bad I was sitting at a stop light and looked in the mirror and could not see the car next to me with all the blue smoke then it started to miss a little at an idle. The smoke would clear up at highway speed. It ran like this for about five miles then quit. Now I have a Blue Chip pump and am very happy with it. Good luck with it. Larry

cumminsdriver635

Keep us updated. Hope it works out allright.

Eric

gofastman

Keeping all of you up to date, I have not heard from the dealer yet on what they have found with the truck....but what i have found out is when i had the new motor (short block) put in, up in colorado, I was told by a chrysler rep, that it is company policy, if there is an engine failer, do to oil, they only install long blocks into the vehicle....so I would like to know why i was only offered a short block?????? So he tells me that we will wait to see what has gone wrong with this engine. Now here is something else he told me.....he checked on the work order of the new engine that was installed in colorado....they put on the bottom of my invoice that it only had a 3yr, 36000 mile warrenty on the short block only, he tells me that he checked on this and found out that the short block and all parts and labor is warrented for 1 yr, 100,000!!!!
Well im under both peramiters and so hes says that puts me in the driver seat,
But to hold off on saying anything until they call to tell me what has gone wrong and to let him know....then we will see what they are going to do.....then we will play are cards to let them know what the dealer did wrong in colorado, and get a completely new engine for this baby.
I hope this works like he says it will....He seems to be really concered about all the problems that i have had with this and the dealers that have worked on this with nobody fixing much of anything but unloading my wallet.
So i will keep you posted.
Allen

gofastman

Well, Here is a further update on my truck.....Dealer called me last Tuesday, and told me that they found No. 5 injector leaking
Now unless i have lost my mind i was told that they checked all the injectors a week ago, and they were all fine. Now they tell me no. 5 is bad. But they are on a national back order, and dont have any idea when they can get one. Soooooo I call Cummins, they have 18 on the shelf, so I called him back and hes says they are not the same injector. Soooooo I call Chrysler Customer service and spoke to a tech man up there, Gave him the Cummins part Number, he tells me yes they are the exact same injector and it is the same thing they get from cummins but in a different box, and part no.
Soooo he called the service manager and explained to him that it is the same injector and he could order it from Cummins and he would be able to fix my truck. SOOOOO get this, he dont have the authorization to order outside parts .
Sooooo I went down to cummins and bought the **** thing and took it to him, he says he will install it, but there will be no warrenty on the injector through Dodge, it will be through Cummins. I told him yea whatever, So they are putting it in today, I hope, and we will see, They claim I can pick this up today.
Now to the mess of this whole thing, They tore my head off and found NOTHING WRONG, so they had to put it back together, now i am having an arguement with him about the warrenty work on taking my head off and reinstalling it, he says there wont be no warrenty on that part either since they didnt replace the head, I said but you did replace the gasket, coolant, oil.
He says yes, then you have to stand behind what work you did do. I have called Chrysler again and am waiting for a response on this matter, also i dont know this but i have a feeling hes going to have me pay for that diagnostic time of taking the head off, I dont think i should have to pay for something like that when if they had done what i had asked them to do in the first place then they wouldnt have had to take the thing apart in the first place.
What do you all think.
Allen

cumminsdriver635

I dont think you should have to pay for anything but the installation of the injector; and i think they should foot the bill for pulling the head off since they didnt check the injectors like they should have. Let us know how the truck runs. Glad you will have it fixed anyway. Let us know how this all works out.

Eric

infidel

I think you are finding out what jerks DC can be when it comes to warranty.
Sure wish they would offer vehicles with no warranty at all at a discounted price since their warranty most often turns into a headache.