I am new. Was looking for help on two Dodges Cummins. Maybe I have found the right place. both cummins are the same engine. one in in an 03 3500 auto 4X4, has no codes in it but it will not start w/o ether, the 02 2500 5spd, had a code (cam position sensor) changed that pull started it it cleared all codes, now it will not start w/o ether. have checked aux(lift Pump) both are ok. I have ask for help here locally in North Texas,everybody is as dumb as a box of rocks or sure are greedy. one stated they had to have pumps, another stated pump and injectors. I talked to one local mech that works for the base. stated check the heaters (air heaters in the intake). I will do that this morning. on another thread here stated maybe their hard start was the fca. and another was talking about a restrictor switch some where on the return line I looked for the article and could not find it should have marked it last night ...if anyone has any ideas please let me know. nisaacs@ntbroadband.com

Thanks ahead of time
Nolan

 

i dont have a answer for your question, but i do have some advice. With our trucks using grid heaters, the use of ether isnt advised. It makes for a very combustible situation.

Marshall

 

where are you in N. Texas?

Can you hear the heaters running? can you hear the lift pump running?
Do you know how to crack open injector lines to see if you're getting fuel?

 

They are two different motors. the 03 is a common rail fuel system and the 02 is the vp44.

 

I live just north of Wichita Falls, yes I can hear and feel the heaters running yes the lift pump is working and when I crack the injector lines fuel comes out when I crank it.

also according to the serial numbers on the body show that both of these trucks have the same identical engine. when entered into the code reader it uses the same scan to work or read the codes. I dont know I am not updated on the computer controlled diesel engines.

 

Those two motors don't even look alike.
first, check fuel pressure to the injection pumps, check filters too. Best to just change them and see if the lift pump can fill the canister. If not, then the transfer pump is bad.
Both motors need pressure to the injection pumps to start easy, but will run once started, but will not run right.

 

The motors should be completely different. If they aren't then you should have more questions soon

I'm not sure about the '02 truck, but the '03 trucks have a lot of injector issues. There are a lot of recent threads in the 3rd gen forums about this.

DO NOT CRACK INJECTOR LINES ON A COMMON RAIL!!! It's ok on the '02 but the high pressure of the '03 can remove fingers.

I would remove your fuel filter completely and have a buddy bump the key. If fuel sprays pumps out of the canister then your pump is probably good. I know you've done this but just making sure. I say this because the truck stays running after ether. Don't spray ether until after the grid heater goes out.

You're probably looking at a set of injectors. Search the forums about this but I've had the same symptoms and so have a lot of '03 owners. It might stay running with just a filter change but will probably get progressively worse. Any other symptoms like rough idle, sputtering, etc?

 

The one Johnny's Truck is licensed and tagged as a 2003, the cpl is 2624, the Engine is 56974972, Family is 2CEXH0359BAE, Door mfg Date shows 10-02

The two Kelly's Truck is licensed and tagged as a 2002, the cpl is 8223, the Engine is 56982810, Family is 2CEXH0359BAE, Door mfg Date shows 11-02

These are both farm trucks and fill out of farm tanks. They probably have had dirty fuel and water, maybe even some of the red non tax fuel at some time in their life both have a little over 100,000 miles. Truck one has 115,000 Truck two has 138,000 miles on it.

Truck two has a slight miss at higher speeds that is not noticeable if you are not use to looking for something not running properly. Both have has the lift pump checked, new filters and all that has ask above done and checked except the pressure on the fuel rail, I purchased a 2000 lb liquid filled gauge today and would like to know how much pressure there should be on this rail. can you check the injectors by blocking one connector at a time and see if the miss increases or goes away. Any more ideas about what to do and check and how to do it would be appreciated.

Thanks to all that have responded I do appreciate the help and even the Criticism.

Thanks
Nolan

 

The pressure in the fuel rail can reach 22,000 psi or higher not sure on the exact numbers. Someone else that knows for sure will chime in on that. I don't think a 2,000 psi gauge is gonna help you much.

 

So both of these trucks have common rail motors? If that is true than they are both '03 or higher model year trucks. Unless some one put an '03 motor into an '02 truck. Can you get pictures of the engine compartments to post on here? Most likely it is a lift pump or an injector problem as others have said. Maybe even a CP3(injection pump) on it's way out.

Edited to add: From the build dates shown I would assume that they are both '03 year trucks.

 

I think that you've got two dead VPs,thats just my .02
I dunno though,you said "Fuel Rail" like there's only one (common rail)
If they are common rail motors then I'm out!

 

I would say Rail pressure relief valve or injectors.

 

yes they both are rail type systems. the injectors all come off of one rail. if you crack one line and I have it will kill the engine if you are not fast. I will upload the pictures of one or both if you would like when I figure out how. The 03 was bought new it is a dulley 4x4 auto. the 02 is a 2500 cab & Chassis bought with 35000 miles on it. it is a 5 speed, 4x4. The 02 has a very slight miss at throttle most people would not notice it. I suspect that it has had water in it and it has gotten an injector tip or injector.

I suppose I should tell what I drive 1995 Dodge SLT Laramie, has larger injectors and has had the pump worked on, it is a 5 speed with ext cab, has all the ground effects, straight to the bed then 5" Chrome stacks about 9 to 10" above the cab cut on a 45. I get a constant 16 to 16.5 loaded or empty and I pull a 30' tandem gooseneck flat bed trailer

Thanks when I figure out how to upload pictures I will upload a picture of one of the engine compartment. I figured it out The White Truck in the middle is mine Drive it daily

Nolan

 

Someone must've re-engined the '02 for it to have a common rail...

and you'll need an ultra-high pressure gauge (~ 30Kpsi range), line & fittings to check the CP3 fuel.

Why don't you disconnect one injector at a time out of the fuel map and see which one(s) affect RPM?

Assuming adequate fuel, any codes?
Try to get the ECM to a DRB scanner...

 

can you just unplug the injectors from the connector where they go through the valve cover or rocker box will that not kill two injectors at a time .. still if it will not start that means that the injectors are not bad because it looks like the injectors will still leak. or just plug off the injector line off of the rail.

there are no codes in either truck

thanks for the help will try it today
Nolan

if one injector is leaking by will that make it not start or hard to start. seems like it might due to the fact the fuel will not be there for the next injector

thanks