Electricity Eric.

Even though a hybrid isn’t all electric, it does run on electricity much of the time. Hence the outstanding fuel mileage (I drove over 5 miles on battery power alone the other night). It is a start to move away from oil. But it is just a start. It is not perfect by any means and I would be the first to admit that. Now I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind about buying a hybrid. As I said before, this is a Dodge Cummins forum not a Toyota hybrid forum. I don’t expect much acceptance for these cars here. I expect a lot more acceptance of the Jetta since it is a diesel and diesel runs through some of your veins. The jokes about paying at the pump were just that…. jokes.

I have read all of the articles on hybrids not being cost effective but I personally don’t see it. All I see is we are saving over $600 per month. That is pretty cost effective to me. Then some of you have brought up the reliability issues, which is a valid concern. The warranty covers everything (and I mean everything) for 100,000 miles. Free scheduled maintenance, and free tires. I can’t complain too much about that. I realize that there is more to go wrong with a hybrid but Toyota has a reputation for quality and I hope we get to take advantage of that quality. As with any car you purchase though, you run the risk of buying a lemon.

Someone brought up earlier about “the ramifications of buying a hybrid” as far as a road tax goes. What’s the answer here? I don’t know, do you? I understand that the roads are partially maintained through taxes collected from fuel sales. Everyone complains about the price of fuel so companies make more fuel efficient vehicles. Then the government complains that not enough revenue is going to be collected since the vehicles are more fuel efficient. So lets create the mileage tax. Catch 22 if you ask me. I’m going to take advantage of the fuel savings while I can right now. As of right now, there are less than 200,000 hybrids running the streets so it isn’t making a big dent into the federal governments pocket book. But mark my words, it will eventually and until then I am going to take advantage of the savings. When it’s no longer cost effective to drive a hybrid I will buy something else. A bicycle perhaps…. Nah….

Chaikwa brought up safety concerns of rescuers in the event of a “hybrid crash”. This, to me, is the most important concern as far as hybrids are concerned. We have a film at the dept. that shows how dismantle a hybrid car. I have also used my car in training for the dept. since I bought it. It is a lot easier to visualize what you need to do when you have the vehicle sitting right in front of you. The one piece of information that I can give you right off the bat is: DON’T CUT ANYTHING RED OR ORANGE!!!! It will light you up. Everything that has to do with electricity is clearly marked in the car.

Stay safe!

Britt

 

That's information I can USE! Are any of these red or orange wires hidden in spots that we are likely to cut thru with the shears?

Thanks Brit!

chaikwa.

 

No. Generally they run from the motor through the “tunnel” in the center of the car (kind of where the drive shaft should go). I haven’t heard of any High Voltage lines running anywhere near the perimeter of the car but that doesn't mean there aren't any. A good rule of thumb is to never cut any line, especially a red or orange one. The battery is usually located somewhere in the trunk area of the vehicle. The battery in our cars are approx. 2ft x 1 1/2ft x 6 inches and holds a hell of a charge. I believe most of the batteries are Gel Cell batteries and they are incased in a steel housing. They "should" hold up pretty well in a major accident but nothing is certain.

Here is a picture of the orange lines from the back of the electric motor:







The orange line coming from the left side of the motor (as your looking at it) goes to the internal combustion engine. The I.C.E. sends power to the electric motor and front wheels during hard acceleration and also sends power to the electric motor to recharge the battery during normal running. Basically all the I.C.E is used for is recharging the battery and supplementing the electric motor when needed.

Hope this helps some.

Britt

 

My only problem with hybrid (ok, there are a couple) is the additional up front cost.

I can purchase a pretty well equipped VW TDI for a few thousand dollars less than then most of the hyprids I have looked at, and actually get better fuel economy.

Next, what happens when you have to replace the batteries?? How much does that cost for replacement, and environmentally safe disposal?? (The same problem I have with windmills and DC electricity in homes)

Most of those hybrids are so L O W that I couldn't get to work with any amount of snow on the ground. My garage is on a dirt alley that doesn't get plowed until noon any day it snows.

Any thoughts on these??

 

One of the main reasons that hybrids get such good mileage (at least to my understanding) is the fact that use lighter cars, smaller tires, and an "underpowered" engine, all of which are ingredients that make a car more efficient.

I've also had a question as to how efficient they are, other than converting speed when your slowing down into electricity then you have to convert all your other electricity from using the engine as a generator. This seems like it wouldn't really add up to a lot of savings.

If anyone can explain to me why using the engine as a generator would save that much energy then please inform me.

 

but dont diesel have more upfront costs than a comparable gasser?

 

What up front cost? The Jetta TDI starts at $21,290 stripped. The Toyota starts at $21,725 with a lot of standard equipment. Price is pretty comparable between the two all the way up the line. On top of that, you get to take advantage of the tax benefit of the Hybrid.



Not a new Jetta you can’t. And no, it won’t get better mileage then the Toyota.



As I said before… There is a 100,000 mile warranty on the Toyotas with all included maintenance and lifetime tires.



Not any lower than a Jetta. It sounds as if you need to keep your truck. A hybrid or Jetta doesn't look like it would do you any good.


Britt

 

One more thing that I almost forgot. The Jetta TDI has a 1.9 L diesel engine producing 100 HP and 177 Lb-Ft of torque.

The Toyota has a 1.5 L gas engine producing 76 Hp and 82 Lb-Ft of torque. BUT here is the kicker…. The electric motor produces 67 Hp and 295 Lb-Ft of torque. For a combined total of 158 Hp and 377 Lb-Ft of torque.

Because the engine doesn't run all the time. As I said before, I drove for over 5 miles the other night coming home from the store without the engine even running. The car was actually creating energy. Every time you let off of the accelerator or apply the brakes, the electric motor acts as a generator and recharges the battery. The electric motor, as you can see, is where most of the power comes from. When you are accelerating or driving on the freeway the Gas motor runs to supplement the electric motor. You would just have to drive one to fully understand. The energy monitor displays where the power comes from and goes to.



Britt

 

I want one now!

I'll have it tore apart in a month!

 

Your right about the gas milage, my buddy just got a 2005 Jetta TDI and is only getting 53 MPG at best.

 

I guess I should have stated my question better, how much energy are you actually saving with the generating brakes. I would like to see how much the same set up would get with just a gas engine (without the weight of the battery and electric motor I imagine that you would get pretty comparable mileage).

Basically I want to know how superior this electric gas combo in terms of thermodynamics when compared to the same setup with just a gas engine.

 

It isn't really a question of if a gas powered only car can get the same or better mileage as a hybrid. I'm sure that they could make one. The only problem is what kind of power are you looking for? There would be a trade off with a high MPG motor only over the power of a high MPG motor attached to a electric motor. My car would run with just the gas motor but it would do it much slower and pulling the weight of the car (with or without the extra weight of the battery or electric motor) would be determental to fuel economy. Like I said before, most of the power from my car is generated from the electric motor. Most of the power that is generated back to the battery comes from power transfered from the road (through braking or deceleration) and the rest is generated from the gas engine.

Something else to consider. While sitting in stop and go traffic or at a stop light, the car doesn't run at all. The gas motor shuts off. This is one reason why the fuel mileage is better with in town driving then at highway speeds where the gas motor is almost always running. While driving around town you are more than likely driving on battery power.

On a side note. I'm not knocking the Jetta. I like that car. It just wasn't for me. To me the benefits of the hybrid outweigh the benefits of the diesel. But this is just an opinion.

Britt

 

That's exactly what I would have said if I had just bought two hybrids.

 

Yep.... probably the same thing you and I both said when we bought our Cummins too.

Britt

 

When I bought the Cummins, I didn't say much....just alot. Hmmmm, just realized that I'm still 'ing a lot when I drive it.

My philosphy: Drive what makes you happy.