Why aren't Diesel Automobiles More Popular?
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Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Shrewsbury England
Over here in good old Blighty something like 28% of all new cars, top of the range and everything in between are diesel powered, by 2006 it will be 40%. In mainland Europe it's much higher. Had a new Peugeot 307 D-Turbo, in 92, it went as well as any petrol driven car, i wouldn't go back to petrol unless the price for fuel was too much.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,733
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From: Austria Europe
All the enthusiasts of quiet diesels should come over here and drive the new Citroen C5 diesel. 1600CC (97ci) 110 hp and really enough torque. Usable RPMs in 5th gear are from 1500 to 4500.
42 mpg running 75 mph in a station wagon with the AC on, hearing nothing from the engine and emitting no smoke (salesman's test to show the customers how clean is to take the car for a spin and then to wipe the inside of the exhaust with a white rag- stays white even at the cars with 50000kms)
More than 70% of the new cars sold in Austria 2003 are diesels. We have the low sulphur standard over here for some time and lubricity requiremens were included in the laws to keep the IPs happy.
AlpineRAM
42 mpg running 75 mph in a station wagon with the AC on, hearing nothing from the engine and emitting no smoke (salesman's test to show the customers how clean is to take the car for a spin and then to wipe the inside of the exhaust with a white rag- stays white even at the cars with 50000kms)
More than 70% of the new cars sold in Austria 2003 are diesels. We have the low sulphur standard over here for some time and lubricity requiremens were included in the laws to keep the IPs happy.
AlpineRAM
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Besides my `80 F-100 my first car was an `80 VW Diesel 4-spd manual stripped down with A/C and 48hp. Sonuvagun couldn't get out of it's own way. Got 45+mpg, would cruise 80mph all day long at 45mpg.
A previous poster said it the best "They're stinky, loud and hard to find fuel for". I have tried several times to stop friends from buying gassers. One bought a V10 Excursion 4wd to tow his 26' boat. Griped about 7-8 mpg and no power to pass. I asked him why he didn't get the PSD he said the noise/smell reasons but also the $5k price tag. I told him about my dad's `99 PSD pulling the same kind of load at 15 mpg. He still wasen't convinced - sold the 26' for a 23' and kept the gasser. Another with a `01 Ram 1500 4wd sport (360). He used to drive for Pepsi - hated diesels with a passion - didn't care about longevity nor mpg. Lived 5 miles from work, never towed, gets rid of vehicles every 2-3 years.
My folks both had MB 300 TD's, one in the D body and the other in the SD body. They were ok from the light, kind of like an auto 4cyl accord, but on the freeway they would effortlessly cruise 120+ with plenty of power and peddal to spare, and get over 20mpg. I've driven MB 560 SELs and they don't exactly jump to attention from a light when you burry the go peddal - must be a MB thing...
The VW TDI is usually on a waiting list. They are hot rods and I see more of them than I do VR6's. Still pricey options though.
In the 1920's they raced diesel powered cars in the Indy 500. The Chevy DM with a EZ/TST style box is the most powerful engine they make, more so than the Corvette motor.
I think the next big thing we will see in consumer diesels is twin, sequential turbos to eleminate any lag. Once people start having their necks snapped by accelerating diesels the perception will quickly change and a new era of commuter cars will evolve. Noise is not reall an issue. They can be as quiet inside the car as the mfg's want them to be. The MBs have 2" thick floor mats for noise reduction. The stink will always be there to some degree but it's better than 76 LTD pumping out 620 ppm Hydrocarbons in stop and go traffic (which is leagal).
It really just a matter of time. Te vast consumer population already knows that diesels get way better fuel economy...
JMHO
A previous poster said it the best "They're stinky, loud and hard to find fuel for". I have tried several times to stop friends from buying gassers. One bought a V10 Excursion 4wd to tow his 26' boat. Griped about 7-8 mpg and no power to pass. I asked him why he didn't get the PSD he said the noise/smell reasons but also the $5k price tag. I told him about my dad's `99 PSD pulling the same kind of load at 15 mpg. He still wasen't convinced - sold the 26' for a 23' and kept the gasser. Another with a `01 Ram 1500 4wd sport (360). He used to drive for Pepsi - hated diesels with a passion - didn't care about longevity nor mpg. Lived 5 miles from work, never towed, gets rid of vehicles every 2-3 years.
My folks both had MB 300 TD's, one in the D body and the other in the SD body. They were ok from the light, kind of like an auto 4cyl accord, but on the freeway they would effortlessly cruise 120+ with plenty of power and peddal to spare, and get over 20mpg. I've driven MB 560 SELs and they don't exactly jump to attention from a light when you burry the go peddal - must be a MB thing...
The VW TDI is usually on a waiting list. They are hot rods and I see more of them than I do VR6's. Still pricey options though.
In the 1920's they raced diesel powered cars in the Indy 500. The Chevy DM with a EZ/TST style box is the most powerful engine they make, more so than the Corvette motor.
I think the next big thing we will see in consumer diesels is twin, sequential turbos to eleminate any lag. Once people start having their necks snapped by accelerating diesels the perception will quickly change and a new era of commuter cars will evolve. Noise is not reall an issue. They can be as quiet inside the car as the mfg's want them to be. The MBs have 2" thick floor mats for noise reduction. The stink will always be there to some degree but it's better than 76 LTD pumping out 620 ppm Hydrocarbons in stop and go traffic (which is leagal).
It really just a matter of time. Te vast consumer population already knows that diesels get way better fuel economy...
JMHO
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 35
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From: shelton WA
they might get a little more popular, but not much. here's why.
1) the general public believes the following. diesels stink, diesels are noisy, guttless, expensive to repair. the problem is that if you're talking about automobiles they aren't wrong excepting the recent TDIs. (MB diesels aren't bad)
2) the general public thinks diesel is hard to find and that it's messy to pump.
3) the GM 5.7 liter diesel. possibly the worst engine ever produced. IMO, this did more to set back the cause of passenger car diesels than anything else.
4) for most americans, utility is very low on the car priority list. we want to haul our families around, but with a 200 HP sedan or gas powered SUV that is "fun to drive." diesel powered cars will never win wide acceptance as long as the cost more and make less power than their gas powered twins.
jeremiah
1) the general public believes the following. diesels stink, diesels are noisy, guttless, expensive to repair. the problem is that if you're talking about automobiles they aren't wrong excepting the recent TDIs. (MB diesels aren't bad)
2) the general public thinks diesel is hard to find and that it's messy to pump.
3) the GM 5.7 liter diesel. possibly the worst engine ever produced. IMO, this did more to set back the cause of passenger car diesels than anything else.
4) for most americans, utility is very low on the car priority list. we want to haul our families around, but with a 200 HP sedan or gas powered SUV that is "fun to drive." diesel powered cars will never win wide acceptance as long as the cost more and make less power than their gas powered twins.
jeremiah
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Joined: Aug 2003
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Usually people enjoy the torque of Diesel's compared to the high horespower of gassers; it's more noticeable. All we need is a widely advertised, good car to come out, and the industry will revolutinize itself, as will public opinion.
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Joined: Mar 2004
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From: shelton WA
but still...can you imagine what diesel would cost right now if every SUV on the road were diesel? 
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jeremiah
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Joined: Aug 2004
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From: Maine
At least in your state you can still BUY a new diesel car. Maine, in it's infinite wisdom, put a moratorium on the sales of NEW diesel cars (effects VW and MB only) until the low sulfur diesel comes out.
There is a sign just as you drive into the state: "If your business were in Maine, you'd be home right now"
It should be changed to "If your business were in Maine, you'd be looking for a job in NH right now".
There is a sign just as you drive into the state: "If your business were in Maine, you'd be home right now"
It should be changed to "If your business were in Maine, you'd be looking for a job in NH right now".
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 38
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From: Tooele, Utah
Originally posted by Begle1
Usually people enjoy the torque of Diesel's compared to the high horespower of gassers; it's more noticeable. All we need is a widely advertised, good car to come out, and the industry will revolutinize itself, as will public opinion.
Usually people enjoy the torque of Diesel's compared to the high horespower of gassers; it's more noticeable. All we need is a widely advertised, good car to come out, and the industry will revolutinize itself, as will public opinion.
It pushes you back in the seat quite nicely, thank you, and will spin both front tires (limited slip) if you tromp it at 25 mph.
I think the torque is indeed noticeable. So is the smoke...
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,733
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From: Austria Europe
BMW offers their new 3.0 diesel with twin turbos stock. They call it 535D - a blast to drive. 
AlpineRAM
Hehehe- being on this side of the pond gets me to drive muuuch more disels than you nananana
AlpineRAM
Hehehe- being on this side of the pond gets me to drive muuuch more disels than you nananana
