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What is a two stroke diesel?

Old 05-28-2005, 02:29 AM
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Originally posted by edwinsmith
The only fault I found in the article is where it said a two stroke diesel must have a turbo or supercharger to run. There are two stroke model airplane engines which burn nitormethane and have glow plugs. They have no turbocharger. Instead they run the air/fuel mixture into the crankcase through a reed valve when the piston goes up. Then on the downstroke the mixture is compressed until the ports from the crankcase to the cylinder are uncovered then the fresh mixture is injected into the cylinder. At the same time the exhaust ports are uncovered to let out the burned exhaust. There is no reason why a regular diesel couldn't use the same mechanism but it probably wouldn't run nearly as well.

Those little glow plug engines really scream on nitro though.

Edwin
It must have a supercharger, not a turbo to run. The modle airplane engines do not have an oil system and the lube is the fuel. A diesel engine could not run that way. It must have a lube system with regular oil. Something has to push the air into the cylinder. A roots blower is a positive displacement blower, if it turns, it pushes air.
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Old 05-28-2005, 06:37 AM
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Well the JuMo in WW2 was used in fighter and bomber planes by the germans. Handy and nice opposed piston 2-stroke diesel. Good power to weight ratio and a good economy. After the war some JuMos were converted for other uses (like driving pumps etc) but since weight had had priority over long maintenance intervals when designing them they failed.
A nice project in hte works ath the moment is a iodiesel 2 stroke that uses the bio for lubrication too. (don't know whether this will be considered for aircraft use though)

AlpineRAM
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Old 05-29-2005, 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by Haulin_in_Dixie
It must have a supercharger, not a turbo to run. The modle airplane engines do not have an oil system and the lube is the fuel. A diesel engine could not run that way. It must have a lube system with regular oil. Something has to push the air into the cylinder. A roots blower is a positive displacement blower, if it turns, it pushes air.
The smaller Detroit two strokes have direct drive blowers to force air into the air boxes to be pushed into the cylinders at the botom of the stroke. The 8v's and such also have four exhaust valves. The bigger EMD's, like rail road engines and such, do have huge turbochargers on them for that purpose but they are gear driven up to a certain load and exhaust temp. Once you get enough load and exhaust temp, an overrunning clutch takes over and allows the gear train to idle and the exhaust drive the turbo like normal. The big EMD's also have a really neat fork/blade rod arrangement that allows two pistons to be hooked to one location on the crank. Got three of them at work, 8-71's and three twenty cylinders for back up power. Also got a big Cat 3612, no you talk about a sweet machine.
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Old 05-30-2005, 07:37 PM
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Detroit Diesel engines... The worlds most efficient diesel at converting #2diesel fuel into NOISE!
you are mistaken, that NOISE should be MUSIC

emd 2 cycles i work on daily [645v 12-20 cylinders, 710v 16 cylinders, and i think we have 1 or 2 567v12 kicking around]...

the proper term is blower on a 2 cycle diesel engine, not supercharger... if the 2 cycle diesel has a blower alone, and no turbocharger on top of it, it is a naturally asperated engine. without the blower, the engine will not idle [although, with a turbo, under load, with the blower quill shaft broken, the engine will continue to pull]

some pics...

emd 710v16 engine rear geartrain. the center gear there below the 2 camshaft gears drives the turbocharger geartrain
backside of a emd turbocharger. you can see the turbocharger geartrain. there is a sprag type overrunning clutch in there [and there is also on some models an overriding clutch on the drive gear from the first pic link]
pic looking inside an emd 2 cycle liner the ports are the intakes, and all 4 valves are exhaust
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Old 05-30-2005, 10:17 PM
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I also love the sound of the old detroits but i still dont think anythin comes close to a Cummins N14.
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Old 05-31-2005, 06:19 AM
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Oliver tractor Corp. used detroits in the Super 99gm (early to late 50's), 990's (various cofigurations, late 50's to very early 60's), and the 1900g m models (early 60's), and the 1950 gm (late 60s'). All versions of the Gm diesel Olivers are VERY sought after, a good s 99 gm will set you back 15 to 25K, I would LOVE to have one, but they are much to rich for my blood right now.
The old Olivers are also getting retrofitted with guess what... thats right, 5.9 cummins. The 1850 model that had the 354 perkins needs very little frame work to hold the cummins, they look really nice and run excellent.

DuaneW.
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Old 05-31-2005, 06:23 AM
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The John Deere 435 also used a two cylinder Detroit in 49 and 50. It was like a 252 or something around 106 cubic inches.
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Old 05-31-2005, 01:42 PM
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They used to say, "Slam your hand in the door before you drive one" Because if it wasn't screamin and you weren't bangin gears like a madman those things wouldn't make enough power to go anywhere.
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Old 05-31-2005, 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by nickleinonen
you are mistaken, that NOISE should be MUSIC

emd 2 cycles i work on daily [645v 12-20 cylinders, 710v 16 cylinders, and i think we have 1 or 2 567v12 kicking around]...

the proper term is blower on a 2 cycle diesel engine, not supercharger... if the 2 cycle diesel has a blower alone, and no turbocharger on top of it, it is a naturally asperated engine. without the blower, the engine will not idle [although, with a turbo, under load, with the blower quill shaft broken, the engine will continue to pull]

some pics...

emd 710v16 engine rear geartrain. the center gear there below the 2 camshaft gears drives the turbocharger geartrain
backside of a emd turbocharger. you can see the turbocharger geartrain. there is a sprag type overrunning clutch in there [and there is also on some models an overriding clutch on the drive gear from the first pic link]
pic looking inside an emd 2 cycle liner the ports are the intakes, and all 4 valves are exhaust
This is "almost" on topic, but since you brought up gear driven turbochargers, a co-worker back in the 70's once told me that the cold-war era diesel-electric sub he was on in the USN had an airplane altimeter mounted in the engine room. Charley said it was necessary for the engineman to watch the altimeter closely when operating Snorkel in heavy seas. The snorkel would snap shut when a wave would cover the snorkel tube and those diesels would still be guzzling the air in the boat (much to the crew's discomfort).
The altimeter would start spinning and they had to watch out that they didn't let it get too "high" in altitude before throttling back on the engines. Eventually the snorkel would open up and intake (ear?) pressure would return to normal, he said this was necessary because the engines that they had in their sub were prone to wrecking their gear train on the turbocharger if they let it get too "high" in altitude.

I realize your locomotives don't run underwater but have you heard of this before?

K.
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Old 05-31-2005, 03:32 PM
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I drove an 11 yard concrete mixer with the screaming 2 stroke Detroit under the hood . Boss said to run it like you were trying to blow it up ,sure liked that !!! Got better fuel economy than ANY of our Cummins trucks and would outrun all of them EMPTY but with a load on the Cummins was always king !! Pigs had no low end but man that mid range was awesome !! Motors would only last 60,000 miles or so before needing rebuild and one left me on the side of the interstate with 11 yards of crete on board . Tooling along at 60 mph all of a sudden smoke in cab and everywhere , head cracked filled cylinder with antifreeze . You wouldn't believe how scared I was when my cheap boss decided to tow truck back with another mixer using the cable for pulling out stuck trucks that is only 8 ft or so !!! That definately had a pucker factor of about 8 being towed with a stinking cable 15 miles on interstate with an unstable 75,000 lb truck !!! Long live the oil leaking beasts !!
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Old 05-31-2005, 09:19 PM
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Anyone know of a sound byte on the internet of a detroit. I'm a little young to have heard them on the road but I've heard about them alot. Supposedly some of the excavating companies around here still use them on jobsites. Guess my tons turnin into too much of a city, can't even drive around a loud smoky oil leaking hulk. Who wouldn't like that?????
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Old 05-31-2005, 09:27 PM
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A while back, some body posted a site that had a bunch of sound clips of 2-stroke diesels working in the field and on the dyno. It was awsome. And sound clips of a 2-stroke big rig sled puller warming up, idling. Ive been searching FOREVER online and cant find them!!!!!!!!!! Somebody please hellllllppp! I need my clips!!!
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Old 06-01-2005, 12:08 AM
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Dont forget that detroits will run backwards too. ask me how i know
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Old 06-01-2005, 04:41 AM
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Originally posted by DZLPWR
A while back, some body posted a site that had a bunch of sound clips of 2-stroke diesels working in the field and on the dyno. It was awsome. And sound clips of a 2-stroke big rig sled puller warming up, idling. Ive been searching FOREVER online and cant find them!!!!!!!!!! Somebody please hellllllppp! I need my clips!!!

link to 2 cycle green grenade sound clips
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Old 06-01-2005, 05:07 AM
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I felt so important after I read that request because I figured I would be the only one that still had that link!! LOL Ron
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