The old international TD 6,9,14,24 all where a dual fuel engine they have a third valve that opens with a lever that also opens a passage to the carb so it starts on gas and then switches over to high compression to run on diesel. I have had a lot of fun semi restoring / using these old tractors along with the old catipillar equipment that have the pony / goat motor start. I still have five or six old track machines dating back in the 40 to 50,s and a old farmall f30 hand crank start. This is where my name Old iron comes from. Great topic.

 

C'mon you guys the old young guys here use some of this stuff today, we hauled a lot of equipment that was not real new but not that old. Until Cat came out with high track machines there was quite a few dozers still around with hand clutches and precup engines. There is still 2 or 3 D8 andD9 cats around here with pup motors. Some of these guys call themselves diesel fanatics and have never experienced the gas pup motors screaming away which had no muffler, then you grab engagement lever and FEEL that big old diesel roll over until you have 1 out of 6 cylinders hammering away. There is no stethoscpe needed here to feel each cylinder hammering just put your hand on the head by each injector and feel it. We even had OLD cummins from the 70's that had decompression handles in the cab, pull it out roll it over release the handle and voila smoke and noise. Rev it up and bend all the push rods, spend the rest of the day setting valves and explaining to fire dept the smoke rolling out of the shop doors was a COOL NTA380 Cummins. And best of all the stench of unburned diesel on your clothes as you exit the shop with tears in your eyes from the smoke. Just to make the vision complete leaving an intersection two trucks side by side smoke billowing from dual stacks racing each other and 2 trailer lengths back neither of us could see the lights or road. That my friends is the starting and running diesels in the days of old which was only 15-20 years ago, Enjoy I can still feel it, no Edge EZ or HX40's just a hand full of Cummins buttons an allen wrench for my CAT and a can of ether. PK

 

my dad's d2 (yeah the little wee one) cat has a gas pup motor it's kinda cool.....

he had an old john deer 2 cylinder you started by spinning the heavy flywheel on the side

he's got a ford dexta 2000 he uses for fire wood now, it's got a 3 cylinder perkins in it, the thing doesn't even have glow plugs or any kind of preheat, if it's real cold out we got to tarp it over and warm the whole thing up with a propane heater......

my grandpa told me the old d4 they used to have had little cups on each cylinder you filled with kerosene and lit on fire, the fire would burn for a wile heating a small rod that went down into the cylinder and it worked just like a glow plug, only non electric

 

A couple of years ago I had the pleasure of rebuilding a Ford 555 backhoe diesel. I was amazed at the cold starting system, and this is not an old unit. While turning over the engine you push a button. The circuit opens a valve that passes return fuel to a port in the intake manafold and also heats an ignition coil that lights the fuel. The cylinders suck in burning fuel which ignites the injector fuel. It works great! It sure beats glow plugs, but I don't know about the safety. It has never caused a problem.<br><br>My method of starting the old 2 cycle detroits was to take off the inlet scoop and drop a hairdryer down the tube for a few minutes. they fired right up. This is just about what Dodge uses on the cummins. Without the heat, after being plugged in the engine would just spin over and never fire. I hate either, makes detroits spit out fire rings. Been there.......

 

This is not about a diesels but it did burn jetA. The F-4 fighters we had would use a method for no power starts called cart starts. The cartridge was about 4 inches around and 3 inches deep. The cart was screwed into the side of the motor and set off. The discharge would start the compressor spinning, and lots of black smoke would come out the exhaust. They were filled with black powder. Was neat to watch but it did stink.

 

Black smoke is good smoke!

 

[quote author=thepitts link=board=8;threadid=5547;start=30#68693 date=1037640020]<br>This is not about a diesels but it did burn jetA. The F-4 fighters we had would use a method for no power starts called cart starts. The cartridge was about 4 inches around and 3 inches deep. The cart was screwed into the side of the motor and set off. The discharge would start the compressor spinning, and lots of black smoke would come out the exhaust. They were filled with black powder. Was neat to watch but it did stink.<br>[/quote]<br><br>That would come in handy when you could find a Krispy Kreem next to a large field :-*

 

I don't know if this makes me old or not but I've got the old iron bug myself. Recently I picked up an old Cat D6 9U with a thrown rod. Installed a replacement engine and now I have a decent little cat. This machine used to have a Pony motor to start it but someone before me ripped it off and attached an electric starter. The old pony motor was cooled with the same water that cooled the diesel and so running the pony would also warm up the diesel engine block. Also, the exhaust from the pony was routed through the intake manufold of the diesel so it would get heated air to start on. I've never used a pony motor but I heard they made the diesel last a very long time. I know from experience that the diesel is VERY hard to start without the pony and ether when it gets anywheres close to freezing. The Cummins Diesel in my 1962 Adams grader on the other hand starts at almost any temperature without ether (no glow plugs) provided the battery has enough juice to spin 'er over for a few seconds. Sorry about the ramble but you just happened to pick a topic I enjoy.

 

ive heard alot of stories from some of the older mechanics around here about an old diesel engine that came out of a tugboat that the college i go to had on a stand that would start and run either way and that was how the boat changed directions the motor is long gone now but have any of you ever seen one like that

 

Spitz, my old John Deere R model pony works like that. People tore up the pony's cause they never gave them time to warm up before throwing the coal to them to spin the big engine.

 

You said it Dieseldude, I'm sure that that was the fate of the pony engine that used to live in my cat. I know the one on the replacement engine was a gonner because it had oil and antifreeze in it's crankcase I really would've liked to have a pony but...

 

Love this thread seems like I'm not the only Old Fart lurking on this site Anyone else remember the old Hall Scott motors or the old Fagil all wheel steer trucks. The new GMC is not unique at all, just a new twist on an old design.

 

Commercial jet engines today still use air starters. Use APU air to spin them up. Work good...last long time...Jet engines are diesels. ( sort of ) <br> <br> JJ

 

High speed diesels at that.

 

Sounds like a lot of hot air to me