Here's what I don't understand about emissions. I don't know if this is going to come out right but here I go. Say a 1993 truck gets 20mpgs and puts out 1900ppm NOX (remember this is a example I have no idea). A 2008 truck gets 16mpg and puts out 1000ppm NOX. Which truck is more efficent The 1993 get more mpgs but is a little dirty, and the 2008 gets less mpgs but is cleaner. One burns more fuel to run cleaner (using up resources). Could someone explain the EPAs thought on this if you understand what im trying to say

 

Tree huggers only deal with emotion. Logic doesn't mean anything to 'em.

Anyone with half a brain can see the more efficient truck as long as it doesn't spew gobs of bad stuff is better.

The EPA is one BIG **** bunch of Tree Huggers.

Next Question?

 

Thats interesting, I hadn't heard anything on the larger trucks, just on the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks, and they have all lost economy from the people I have talked to who own an '08. Ford, Dodge and Chevy.

I did read up on due to the emission requirements and how it ties into the exhaust, some of the aftermarket body manufacturers (dump, garbage, van bodies ect...) are having a hard time with some of the specialty items, because the exhaust cannot be touched.

 

One big difference between the big trucks and ours is the loads they haul, We dont keep our truck loaded heavy enough to keep the exhaust temps up, forcing the system to add fuel to the exhaust to increase EGT. Thus damaging fuel milage. We drive our trucks, truckers work their trucks, and diesels like to be worked ( I Know, this applies to most of us, but not all ).
There was a link on this site somewhere to cummins, which explained how their emissions system worked, very interesting.

DuaneW.

 

Simple answer.

E-eliminate
P-petroleum
a-altogether

We figured this out in the early 70's!!!!!

 

Yes most light duty diesels, all 1 ton and 3/4 ton diesels, do get worse fuel mileage. In the heavy duty diesels you do have to be careful where you locate the exhaust because there is the risk of fire to the surrounding areas if it is to close to something flameable. I am not for certain if the ISX has an injector in the exhaust. I believe it does though. It sprays raw fuel into the exhaust to help create a better environment for the chemical reaction that happens in the catlyist. The catlyist does get very hot.

Could this be the link?
http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/fil...t_training.pdf

 

Diesel will get even more expensive for us in America as I see it.

The high prices of diesel are due to INTERNATIONAL demand for it in emerging countries like China and India. These countries aren't adopting the stifling diesel emissions that the US and Europe are working on.

Thus demand for diesel in the US will fall as we see diesel powered semis and ag equipment become paralytically expensive to operate and the switch is made to gasoline.

Since the demand here will fall, the refineries will have less incentive to produce it and there will be less supply as well. The amount they DO produce will go across the ocean to the China and India where they can get more money for it.

Looks the future is going to Gasoline Direct Injection or GDI. At least until the Enviro-Nut-sees find a way to mess with that to.


End result: US economy suffers, and EVERYTHING gets more expensive.

Gee, thanks Congress!

Darned fools come in groups of 535.

jmo

 

3
Well my friend you may be right but I don't think the large trucks will ever be converted back to gas. Well I sure hope not

 

Could you imagine a gasser class 8 truck towing 80,000 or more pounds??? That pos would be getting gallons per mile as opposed to miles per gallon and would take all day to get out of it's own way. What about torque?? Tundra commercials kill me, 3XX horsepower, 4xx torque.....blah blah blah. I have less horsepower, older truck and would still pull circles around that pile o'crap.

Gassers will be as efficient as diesels?? What was it, at idle diesels operate at around an 80-1 air/fuel mixture and gas was what?? Tree huggers? Ohh, that's right 14.5-1 all the time. Diesels at full load, rippin her guts out, 25-1, which is better? hmmmm, better let someone else decide....I don't have a PHD or some MB to make that type of decision. Shawn Shawn to dumb...ugg

We're hooked on the whole gas thing......or they are, as soon as I can afford another diesel for the wife I'm done with gas...wish I could convert my push mower and 79' mustang to diesel. Diesel weed wacker, chainsaw, post hole digger.....I hate gassers.

Diesels= burn cooking oil, bio fuel or diesel. What you have to do to your diesel...ahhh, nothing.

Gasser= ethanol, after buying or paying for an expensive conversion kit, payoffs after doing so...from what I've heard, worse fuel economy. Or you can burn......ohhh, that's it, that and gas....hmmm??

Let them preach the gospel of the almighty gasser and get most Americans hooked back on it cause diesels to difficult and I'll keep mine and wait for the fuel prices to go down or keep runnin the bean oil.

 

GM by its self, has done more damage to the light vehicle diesel market than all other manufactures.
5.7, 6.2, 6.5,
Truth is, they refuse to make a vehicle that will last an average of 300-400 miles. They killed the electric car.
They are in business to sell cars and trucks. Why build one that lasts 3-4 times the cheap ones we build?

 

I'll believe that one when I see it. The best ISX I ever drove was one that was built before the first round of these current emissions reductions went into effect. A pre-October 2003 ISX in an '02 387 model Peterbilt. I put almost a 150,000 miles on that truck with an average gross weight of 72,000 lbs and averaged 7.5 mpgs. Never seen anything after 2003 that could do better than 6.5 mpgs my current 06 truck does good to get 5.9 mpgs. I doubt there will ever be one of these choked off 07+ engines do better than that 02 ISX I had that was just an awesome engine.

 

ok, IMHO, if you want to get the EPA, Congress, social security administration, the welfare department, perscription drug companies, insurance companies, petroleum producers...etc... First, you gotta fire everybody thats in their current positions. Pass laws that REALLY use common sense tempered with real world FACT, not just a lobbyists rendition of "fact". Allow no lobbyists, in fact pile their carcasses with most lawyers. Elect new people who actually share working Americans goals and ideals, have them make laws about social security, medicare, and drug plans....but heres the kicker, the laws that they enact, THEY must live and retire by also!!! I've never understood why they make the laws, but they don't have to retire by them????? go figure!.. And another thing... crap,
Sorry, I just read back and realized I'm ranting.....Sorry for hijacking the thread... I'll shut up now!

 

A gasser can use almost any low flash point fuel. Examples are methane, butane, octane, ethanol, methanol, alcohol, acetylene, propane, nat. gas, any alkane, any alkyne, acetone, etc, etc, so gasoline engines aren't dead.

 

It would be interesting to know what the emissions (nox, co, co2, etc...std or actual) were for those different years. I sometimes think we are going backwards and not forward. I may have to see if I can look those up when I get home.

Some quick math to show a point:
150,000 miles at 1 mpg differece(7.5-6.5) = 3,076 gallons of extra fuel.
150,000 miles at 1.6 mpg diff (7.5-5.9) = 5,423 gallons of extra fuel.

I'm not sure of the time frame it took for you to put those kind of miles on but This is just one truck, and how much emission are we truely reducing when we are burning more. Now apply that to every truck on the road, if this is true for most or all the trucks.

 

I thought about adding a lenghtly comment to this post, but why? I will simply suggest that everyone reads all the excellent posts already here. What saddens me the most is that some mutton-head in WA blurts out some babble (like: demanding that the auto industry increase fuel mileage to 35mpg for all vehicles, including trucks) and the lemmings line up behind him (or her). The goof probably shows up to make this statement in his chauffer-driven limo paid for by us tax payers, and you can bet he has never even checked his own oil, let alone taken the time to understand the workings of an engine. Excellent thread......too bad we are the mushrooms that get the u-know-what spread on us. I'm half expecting to hear that the next great idea is to start taxing us if our vehicles weigh more than.........ohh, let's pick a number, like more than 1000 lbs.
Just remember.....They Must be smart! Why else would we be paying them so much money to tell us how to run our lives?