Hi all, I went to go look at a 1985 International S1900 truck yesterday and had some questions on the transmission. It has the DT466 engine w/ an 8-speed transmission. The shifter showed the pattern in the form of a circle to where I counted gears all the way up to #7 (didn't see an 8), but maybe the first gear was labeled an "L" for low. It did not have your shift pattern in the form of vertical/horizontal numbers like normal, but I figured it was just common with older model trucks being that it's an 85 model year. Does anybody know what make/model transmission this is and does it happen to be a common one behind this vintage truck with the 466 engine? We took it for a test drive and there is an issue with shifting the trans, when we first pulled out it shifted fine from 2-3, but then it sometimes will grind gears going into 4th. When we turned around to go back to owner's house we had to go uphill and when he started out in either 2nd or 3rd gear the shifter got stuck in that gear. It took a good bit of pushing up to place back in Neutral with the clutch pedal pressed in all the way, so possible minor/major issue with alignment in the trans is what he mentioned (but didn't know much about them). The owner said that he talked to a guy that said it may be a set screw that has come loose and you'd have to pull the top cover to check it out. Other then that I'm thinking it could possibly need a clutch and truck has around 313,000 on it. I myself don't know much about the transmissions internally either, but I have pulled and installed a few heavy truck clutches at work. Any advice or issues you think this trans has let me know and thanks.

Sal

 

I may not totally understand what it is you are explaining but I drove a Volvo 15 years ago that had a different setup in it. They called it an 8 LL. The difference was instead of going from bottom left to top right upshifting you went from bottom left to bottom right to high gear that was top right. It was like going in a circle. I picked the truck up at night and started on the road, well it was one cranky thing to shift, not to mention the sudden drop upshifting 2 gears. Being from Canada the owner called it a Newfie shift pattern, making fun of the people from the province Newfoundland. Just a joke on his part we both knew.
You had to get the rpm's just right or that thing was crazy to shift. Hope that helps.

 

Is there a high and low range on this trans?

We have 2 80's vintage Internationals here, both are 1900 series. One has a DT466 with a 5 speed and a 2 speed rear. The other is has a 3208 with a twin counter shaft 7 speed in it, regular pattern, I think that's the most gears you can put on a single shift pattern and not get lost.

 

Forgot to say that the 8 LL had a low/high range splitter. Our old inter. had a 5-speed with a ruxel? ( 2 speed rear axle )

 

I have never seen an 8LL in a 1900. It could be a 6+ which is a 6 speed with a low gear (7spd). however I don't believe they were available during the years that model was manufactured. It most likely had a 5+2, but with that being said we have no idea about the history of that truck. Several things can cause a trannny to hang up when trying to shift. A defective clutch, usually a broken spring on the pressure plate causes this with a clutch issue. Shift tower pin(s) is worn or broke. Bent lower shifter, (below the ball socket). Or tranny dependent, bad synchros.

 

Hey guys, and thanks for the replies and advice. The truck definitely has at least 7 gears, evident from seeing the numbers labeled on the shift ****. It does not have a low and high range either. When I looked at the ad before I called about the truck it listed 8-speed transmission. I know that from looking at a lot of units for sale that most came with the 5-speed and 2-speed rear or maybe a 6-speed and I too was surprised that it had an 8-speed. I agree that it may be a 6 with a low, but I'm thinking it's even possible that it's a 7 with a low (or "L" as the first gear). When I was talking to him about it he said he went to pick up hay from a house and got stuck in the mud. In the attempt to get out going through the gears he said it felt as if they weren't aligned and thus the reason for a shifting problem. This truck is set up from the factory in maybe a more special way then others as its got 22.5" bud wheels, hydraulic brakes (rotors/pads on both front and rear axle), and is under CDL weight rating. And yet has a transmission with more gears then a normal one does I do think. I do know one thing that the engine is a helluva unit being the DT466, some say the best medium duty engine ever built. I hope it isn't bad synchros or a problem internal to the trans and how hard would it be to fix the shift tower pins being worn/broke? Get away with just pulling the shift tower/top plate off or tear into the trans to repair? Being that this thing is at least a 7-speed and behind an engine sized as the DT466 how much would a new, decent clutch cost for it? I plan on going to look at the truck again this week and want to try to get a make/model number of the trans body and the truck's VIN number. That would help me to get a better knowledge of it, as for better help too. Thanks again.

 

Our old White at work is like that, definitely takes a little getting used to. First and only truck I have seen with that shift pattern

 

Well went to go look at the truck for the second time today to get a look at the trans and try to see about getting numbers off it. It is a wide body trans for one thing and I'm used to seeing 10 speeds about this wide, if not I swear this trans might have been bigger. It is a Spicer trans, that has a red exterior color, and is a 7-speed (not 8). Obviously has reverse and then it's gears 1-7 labeled on the shift **** in a circle pattern. Definitely no high/low switch as it doesn't have air brakes. You just shift it like a normal 5 or 6 speed in a full-size truck. I was able to identify it as a Spicer by seeing it stamped on the front driver's side of the trans body about a few inches back from the bellhousing. It listed Spicer and then under that a number (possibly model identification)?? Number is C-97-518-35 or 0-97-518-35, the first character was hard to read/see and it's either a "C" or "O" or even the number zero. Now back to how this trans is acting. We started the truck up and the shifter was clearly in neutral, but when letting out the clutch it was clearing acting as if it were in a gear because the truck lurches forward and engine RPM changes. Then we had it shifted into 3rd and 4th to try letting out the clutch and it would engage and move properly when clutch was let out. Go to 1st or 2nd and it would get stuck in gear to where the shifter would be very very hard to push up or down against to get it out (abnormal situation) and that's with clutch pushed in or left out. It seems as if when in neutral that the trans is really in a gear and when in a certain gear actually in neutral??? Seems confusing and any advice? I'm really thinking all of the problem is with the clutch itself and it just needs replaced. How much would a clutch run for this Spicer 7-speed and any other things I could check for by maybe taking the shift tower/top plate off? Thanks again.

 

Does the shifter rotate left or right abnormally. I would pull the shift tower before I did anything else. Once you pull the tower look at the shift interlocks for anything bent or jammed in there. Also look at the end of the shifter and see if the ball socket is in one piece, the ball should have machined flat ends. Then look in the shift tower itself, there is a grooved slot on the ball, there is a spring loaded round pin that recesses into the slot to give the detent resistance when moving the tranny into reverse, and to self center the shifter when being placed into neutral. If these pars are worn to far they will allow the tranny to get partially jammed in between two different gears causing identical symptoms as you have described.

 

Thanks for your reply. The shifter rotates to the left and right from the center neutral position fine, no abnormal problems there. It's just when you put this thing in some gears it will get stuck or always act like the parking brake is engaged (when really not) as the clutch pedal is let out. I scoured the internet for any information possible and turns out the number I copied off the trans is a casting number for the clutch housing. #C-97-518-35 tells me I have a cast iron housing and this unit is either a Spicer 1372-A or 1372-B. The differences between the both being Reverse, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gears have a lower ratio if you have the 1372-B. Apparently model or serial numbers are on the right side but I couldn't see any numbers or a tag when I looked at it yesterday. Just a stamped number on the bottom and the one I copied on the front left side of the clutch housing. Wasn't paying attention that the number was on the clutch housing itself and not on the body and got excited when I saw the word "Spicer" haha. I will take your advice on pulling the shift tower to check condition of the parts you listed and thanks Tim couldn't have asked for any better help. I just hope the trans is an easy and less expensive fix as sometimes it can turn into a lot more work in the case it would need rebuilt. Thanks again.

Sal

 

Almost sounds like a bent, or worn shift fork.

 

I did not think those were tranny numbers. I tried running them through the Spicer web site and kept coming up with newer tranny's.

Some clarification, what I mean when I say "does the shifter rotate". Grab hold of the shifter ****, do not move it sideways hold it firmly centered in neutral, then rotate your hand clockwise and counter clockwise. you should not have any rotational (twisting) movement.

Your welcome for the help, keep us updated.

 

Hey, I worked on a ton of these S1900s. We had a huge fleet with juice brakes 25 yrs ago. Just to rule out a failure of main shaft or alignment issues can you pull the drain plug momentarily and see if there are any goodies? If the oil is good and there isn't any bearings or pieces stuck to the plug then start upstairs by pulling the shift tower to look for damage. The shift forks have brass inserts where they contact the collars, these wear down and one falls off and ***** the fork on the collar making it hard to shift. You may not find these near the plug as they are brass. Look carefully with a flashlight down the hole and manually push each shift rod as you watch the forks. When it comes to your clutch a 14" double disc needs to have minimum 9/16" travel at the throw out bearing to release. I have had S1900s with worn external linkage that were only giving 1/2" travel at the throw out bearing and the clutch will drag, heat up, and warp. Have someone push the peddle as you measure at the TO brg. with the engine off of course. Keep us updated, may have other sugestions.

 

Hey, thanks for the advice. I haven't contacted the seller back or went to look at the truck for the third time to tear into it because I thought I might be biting off more then I can chew. It could have been something easy, but at the same time much more money involved so I decided to move on and not persue getting the truck.

 

i know im a couple months late on this, but my 87 binder has teh 466 and 5/2 speed. My question/issue is what should i expect the top speed to be? right now the 2 speed is disconnected and i have been searching for transmission gear rations to kinda calculate it, but right now its 55@3000 rpm. After looking through all the 2 speed documentation i can find, i cant definitively determine what position the 2 speed is in. Will it return to the low side if NOT hooked up or will it stay in its current state if not hooked up? I got a great deal on a really clean 87, and dropped a 22ft flatbed on it, i mean this things RUNS great, but 55 mph is KILLING me...
If anybody has any info i would sure appreciate it. Thanks