Tallguy67

Folks,
I have been posting over on the big board for my truck but I think I need a little local help. Last Monday was the first rather hot day since I bought my truck last August (if you remember, it was 30C). My A/C had lots of air flow but it blew cool (at best). Interestingly every once in a while I would get a minute or so of quite cold, but mostly it was cool. The compressor seems to cycle on and off quite frequently. From what I can tell, it is acting like it is a little low on refrigerant.
I stopped in at my local parts store on Saturday (in Langdon) and asked for an A/C recharge kit for my truck. They gave me a kit with Duracool 12. My truck says it is charged with R134A and everyone (including the kit) says not to mix refrigerants. So, I took the kit back to Langdon today. Before I left I called another parts store near Princess Auto in SE Calgary. I told them exactly what I had and asked if they had an A/C recharge kit with gauges. Answer = YES. I then repeated 'Do you have a recharge kit for R134A?' Answer = YES. So I get home from parts store and read package. Kit contains 12A and specific instructions 'You cannot mix refrigerants, this will REPLACE R134A but you cannot mix it. You must evacuate your existing system to 10 in HG'. Ok, now I am ticked since I was VERY clear when I called. So, I called back. Story is, you cannot buy, sell or service with R134A in Canada any more. You must have your system evacuated and go with a non-CFC refrigerant. Ok, now that I am done whining and ranting, I have two questions. 1 - Can you get R134A anywhere in the Calgary area? 2 - I have a moderately well equipped shop, is there anything I can get to go on my compressor or something like that to allow me to evacuate my A/C system so I can put the new environmentally friendly refrigerant in?

Thanks for local help folks. BTW - this is for truck in sig.

cLAYH

Yes you can still buy R134A, not in small quantities like you want though. Its only R12 you cann't get anymore

Yes you can mix Duracool/Redtek with R134A I've done it many times with good results and no side effects. No idea why they print that on the can. Probably has something to do with the fact that its hard to evac a system once its been contaminated with Duracool and its illegal to dump it to atmosphere.

I usually use the kit from Canadian tire.

Tallguy67

cLAYH,
I have an Emzone 12A recharge kit with gauges. Are you telling me I can just dump a can of that into my R134A system without probs? I got the kit at AutoValue. Would be really nice if it is this easy.

Lucas1

ive posted so many places about this but it is my opinion that the drop in can stuff is the "easy way out"
you dont know how much you got in there how much you need pressures if you have non-condensibles etc etc.

id go to eskimo refrigeration or a place like that and have a refrig. tech look at it. transport refigeration techs/mobile a/c techs are qualified
shoud be evacuated too 500 microns drier changed if needed. oil inspected and charged correctly.

it will work at 100% and not damage your compressor.

if you add too much refrigerant and run it it will only perform poorly and potentially damage compressor after time.


oh ya iam a refrigeration tech...if you are in kamloops ill look at it for ya.

Tate

You could talk to Brett, he works at Polar Refrig. in the Foothills Industrial Park. Might be able to straighten this out and/or hook you up with the right stuff.

dvst8r

R12a is basically propane. Yes it will work to cool, but as Luke pointed out there is no pressure temp chart for that stuff. As such there is no way to know what sort of pressure it runs at. For example R134a as you surpass 100 degrees F, the pressure takes off exponentially, and you really have to watch it, or you will be blowing lines and compressors.

The other issue with R12a is being propane based, if you were ever in a front end collision, and punctured any part of that A/C system, if there is any source of ignition you will have a nice little bomb on your hands. news story from a few years back...

Does it work? Yes. Are you taking a risk using it? Yes. It is up to you if the risk to reward ratio is worth it.

I don't know of any evac setups that hook to an air compressor, as they are all vacuum based. They use the vacuum to boil out refrigerant, and you use nitrogen to blast out any contaminants. A basic evac setup, with gauges and recovery tank, will run you $600-$1000 depending on the options you choose.

R134a sells in 30lbs bottles from $270 - $350 a bottle depending on where you get it, and a $50 - $80 core. When sold via the Lbs, on a service, it is considerably more.


Luke, I know we sold you injectors and that probably had a direct impact on your transmission blowing up, but is that any reason to send people to my direct competitor?

JHansen

You can buy R134a in small cans if you know where to look-but it's considerably more expensive than buying a 30# bottle. I wouldn't mix with the off-brand stuff personally-down the road possibly a real pain for someone trying to recover it. Same with sealers, etc. Propane is an awesome refrigerant....in an industrial setting, with gas monitoring, explosion-proof electrical systems, and a system designed for it. No way would I charge it into anything mobile....although I know a guy around here who apparently runs it in his tractors' AC systems.....

I bought a set of R134a gauges and a digital thermometer to slide into the vents per the service manual last year to do topups myself, along with a vacuum pump and flush tank for the time down the road when I run into a seriously ratched system. Already had the UV dye injection setup as it was on sale and I needed to ID an engine oil leak. If you have the gauge set and the thermometer, the pressures and temperatures that a properly charged system should generate are in the FSM. Someday, I'll stumble across a good deal on a recovery setup and a digital scale and be completely set, but for now, this seems to be working for me anyway-your mileage may vary .

Jason

Tallguy67

Ok folks, you convinced me. Another diy A/C recharge kit will get returned to store and get it done by someone with the proper equip.
Luke - I live about 20 mins SE of Calgary so a drive to Kamploops is a pretty long one for an A/C recharge kit - but thanks very much for the offer.
Brett - any chance you can help a local guy out? Either set me up with coolant and gauges or with a top-up? I am not asking for a freebie btw, just not sure where to start and I really don't trust most garages.
As a final option - is there a good place in east Calary that I can trust to top up the R134a properly and for a reasonable price?
Thanks again everyone.

cLAYH

I've never used Emzone. But I'm guessing that its similar Redtek and and Duracool which I've used quite a bit with no problems.

Autotemp air and sound is where the last shop I worked at used to have all their AC work done on pickups but I think they use Redtek so if you don't want that then don't go there.

Ohhh! I think Jay at Chanda does AC now. Try him. 287-3350.

Don't use the drop in stuff if you plan to take it in. AC shops don't like that stuff.

JHansen

If you can wait a little bit until I come that way, I'll bring my gauges, thermometer, refrigerant & service manual specs & top it for you. You can PM me for my cell # if you want to talk about it a little.

Jason

Tallguy67

PM sent

dvst8r

If it doesn't work out, the number to our service shop is 403-279-3633. I run our wholesale division a few blocks away, and am not setup to do any service work, but I promise they won't rape you. We do mostly hiway tractors, and off road equipment.

Autotemp does mostly cars and pickups, and they do good work as well. It is where I turn most automotive stuff to.

Lucas1

the lkast part of that sentence says it all.

if you bring it too a refrigeration outfit or equivalent you should not be charged more then $250 bucks

14.50 / pound for 134a give or take a little likely around 2.5 pounds in system
evacuation $10
nitogen charge $10
labour 2 hours max.

if you bring it in ,before they look at it
pressure wash the condensor ,make sure its clean
and to save time and charges do an atmospheric recovery too

Tallguy67

Thanks DVST8R. If things don't work out with JHansen, I will give the shop you recommend a call. I prolly should trust local garages more but I seem to find that after turning my own wrenches for the past 30 yrs and spending the last year learning about my truck on this site I typically know more about my vehicles than your average garage. Don't get me wrong, there are times I need a specialist and I will gladly pay the specialists when I do but so many small garages don't seem to want to admit when they are in over their heads.
Thanks to all of you for your info and offers of help or referrals to reputable shops.

Mike Holmen

I've had run the r12 and had an AC line blow off, the one by the air intake filter. My engine did a run off, nothing to crazy, I was driving in downtown Calgary at the time. Sounded like a shotgun blasting off. Fix that issue.

Been thinking about using it for a power adder. Been using the stuff for years now. My AC ices up and stops blowing cold air after awhile. Best results occur when you have a pressure gauge