Hi Don,

Thanks for the information. I’m very interested. 7% less flow would lead me to believe that a significant improvement in fuel economy is possible. As you probably have heard, a number of the new 325/600 owners are complaining of very poor mileage. It seems to be common knowledge amongst the dealers that the new 325/600 motors are down on mileage compared to the 305/555s. I'm concerned because I have a new 325/600 on order and I want it to get the best possible mileage.

After reading all the posts on the subject of the 600’s mileage in both DTR and TDR, I theorized that the worst mileage issues they are experiencing are most likely injector related. Poor fuel mileage is probably due to poor fuel utilization, which, I would guess, would be closely related to the injectors’ effectiveness at delivering atomized fuel. As further evidence of this, the only fixes I've read about the factory/dealers doing have been injector replacements. In your opinion, is it possible that one or more injectors with compromised spray patterns could reduce mileage by 3 to 5 mpg?

With regard to your 20HP ‘mileage’ injector, I have seen a number of posts that mention a hope for an aftermarket solution to the mileage problems with the 325/600s. It sounds like you might have the answer close at hand. I, for one, would like to know more about them and/or whether you have plans to offer a ‘mileage improvement’ injector or package for the 600s. I certainly hope my new truck doesn't have a low fuel mileage problem, but whether it does or not, I would be interested in a product that improves mileage both empty and when towing.

You also mention a difference in rail pressure between the 305/555 and the 325/600 motors. Could you please explain what the difference is?

Thank you

 

David,

Once we figure out how to turn off the third event I feel that would only do us some good in mileage.

I was surprised in the performance of the lower flow rate nozzle. The flow rate is sooo critical on the common rail engine and I just wanted to know what performance gain we had even if the rate was lower than stock. The 21-23 HP was a nice surprise. I was looking for a loss.

More testing is ongoing. I hope we could have a miser or mileage injector just for the towing and economy crowd. Im just not sure how many folks will buy them??

The 325/600's run a higher rail pressure than the 305's. Roughly 2000 PSI higher.

Vaughn,

Im nervous on duration boxes and even ultra high pressure settings. Injectors alone are good for daily driving and dont have the daily stress to the system.

Luckily the valves are inconel this time around and the seats are cobalt stellite. Tough stuff for tough demands. The mass flow to the turbine wheel is killing these little things when the fuel is cranked up. Even wastegated...its trouble for long term durability.

Don~

 

Don, do you know for a fact that someone is working on this? I sure would like to see that integrated into some of the current fueling boxes on the market, perhaps with a flash upgrade.

 

Don do you know if any injectors will be available by the time Muncie gets here? I am trying to hold off until I can talk to some others about mods there. Kepp up the good work, and keep us posted.
Thanks Jason

 

Don, are these injectors only being designed for the 325/600, or will they also work in the 305/555? Please don't tell me the 03 and early 04 owners with the 305 are being left out!!?

 

I can answer this one for Don. Yes we know someone who is looking into this. I kind of doubt you'll see it as a flash though. Cummins built the 325/600 to be 50 state legal where as the 305/555 was only 49 state legal. Reverting back to 2 injection events on a 325 truck would defeat the reason for the 3 injection events, emissions, therefore I doubt you'd see dealers doing it.

Badbowtie,

I doubt we will have enough solid info on the nozzles for release by Muncie. Don and I will both be there to relay any info gathered on them to that point. If they do happen to be available by then you'll know.

Injectors for both versions of 3rd gen trucks will be developed but I wont speculate which will be the first to be released. Which ever injector Don feels comfortable with first will probably get the nod.

Nathan

 

I wasn't implying that a dealer would ever be able to do this, as the ECM parameters are too controlled by EPA crap. I didn't mean a flash of the trucks ECM, I meant a flash of the Edge or TST or VA or whoever's box that is already making some parameter tweaks... if they could figure out how to eliminate the the 3rd injection event without having to change the physical hardware then perhaps the box can be reflashed, even if it has to be sent back to the factory, so that someone who purchased one box wouldn't have to spring for another... or maybe they will have to be piggybacked... only time will tell I suppose.

 

The 3rd event is in the ECM. If you turn it off without extension of the second...power will go down. How much? still theory. Extension of the second with a TST or similar box will at least put the truck back to where it was in the 03-04 series. Lower EGT's and better economy will result. At least Cummins did their part and gave us a 50 state legal engine Even Cali gets one!

The 3rd gens will prove to be a barnstormer of an engine!

Nathan ended up with 434 HP on only injectors and a large single turbo on his 04.5 engine. The experimental pressure box bumped it up to 492! The TST box bumped it up again. How far? Still top secret, but enough to turn some heads on the street. It is very fast and seems to run nearly as fast in the back half as the 02 that ran consistant 12.20 quarter miles last year.

To get these HP numbers took only one week Imagine where we will all be in the next six months

The common rail trucks will be the thing to have...racing, dynoing etc. in the months to come.

Only a box that directly "Y" taps the injector connectors like the TST could be made to change events and the time they happen.

Don~

 

Hi Don,

Thanks again. Now if I read this correctly;

1) Swapping to the appropriate injectors could result in improved economy and power without adding pressure or fooling around with the injection events and would still be 50 state emissions legal. I would also assume that they will not set codes.

2) To eliminate the third event, the wires to the injectors would have to be cut somewhere, and this would further improve economy but hurt power to some extent. This would likely not be 50 state legal and DC would probably not like it.

3) Pressure boxes are hard on injectors, which IMO may be why DC doesn't like them being added to anything under warranty. They adversely affect reliability.

Of these three options, I would choose the injectors because I could probably have the injectors installed by my dealer, get better economy, more power and, according to my dealer, they would honor my warranty. (Maybe we could try to get DC to offer these as dealer installed options? ) Either way, I think plenty of people would buy them now that diesel is nearly $2.00 a gallon. In any event, I could make the case for marketing them as competition for the boxes or other options.

 

Hey Don, I recently heard that you had been fiddling with cams. Any truth to that and if so are you far enough along to comment on what kind of results your getting?

 

With the amount of driving I do, I would buy the economy enjectors in a heartbeat!! Bring em' on!!
My dealer told me to replace my injectors with new stock ones, would be $250 each plus labor. By the time it was all said and done I wouldn't save $ even in the long run. The service writer obviously doesn't realize I plan on keeping my truck for a looonnng time.
So again finish testing and put them on the market so I can buy them and save some money in the long run, even if it just seems that way

 

Back to ze top!

 

Why do I get the feeling Vaughn might have a wee interest in some new injectors?

 

Still thrashing. No real news, but we are on track

Don~

 

The claims for these injectors seem reasonable. Over on the TDR they are claiming that they have an injector coming out for the '04.5s that offers 100 HP AND a 4 - 6 mpg GAIN. I find that a little too good to be plausible but I suppose most things are possible. I will wait for verification from others but if they are only half as good on my 305 motor as they claim, then I'd be all over them.