CP3 Stage III or Duals
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 223
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Dual CP3's are quickly becoming a fashion statement. Seems to be taken seriously, people think they need duals to keep up with the Jones'es. I assure you that 90+% of people would be very happy with a good single CP3. Single CP3 evolution has come a long way in the last year. Personally, I think it is far more impressive to have a single CP3 make big power, and support VERY large injectors.
As for the half load conjecture, concerning the shared load of duals. The theory is full of holes. Pressure does not multiply, volume does. If you are making 25,000 psi to the rail, both pumps individually must make 25,000 psi. Sure one pump could make more than the other, in that case one pump would make more, the other would make less. For instance, one pump could make 23,000 the other could make 27,000 and the gauge would show an equilazation from the 2 in tandem. The half load nonsense is a selling point. Pressure is what wears out the CP3, the ability of duals to create it very quickly can lead to accelerated wear. Think about it!
Will duals do all you will ever need, maybe. Will they outlast a big single, doubtful. Also another thing to consider is the side loading from the serpentine belt. I have taken Cummins pumps apart from dual applications, the top pumps start wearing the shaft bushings very quickly. The coating coming off the bushing can end up ruining a CP3.
Someone looking for power in the 900 range on fuel alone, should more carefully consider the options.
As for the half load conjecture, concerning the shared load of duals. The theory is full of holes. Pressure does not multiply, volume does. If you are making 25,000 psi to the rail, both pumps individually must make 25,000 psi. Sure one pump could make more than the other, in that case one pump would make more, the other would make less. For instance, one pump could make 23,000 the other could make 27,000 and the gauge would show an equilazation from the 2 in tandem. The half load nonsense is a selling point. Pressure is what wears out the CP3, the ability of duals to create it very quickly can lead to accelerated wear. Think about it!
Will duals do all you will ever need, maybe. Will they outlast a big single, doubtful. Also another thing to consider is the side loading from the serpentine belt. I have taken Cummins pumps apart from dual applications, the top pumps start wearing the shaft bushings very quickly. The coating coming off the bushing can end up ruining a CP3.
Someone looking for power in the 900 range on fuel alone, should more carefully consider the options.
Shane, I unerstand you do modded single pumps and good ones at that, but surley there are two sides to this dibate. There as many or more people preaching the perks of duals over the best modded single out there.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 359
Likes: 0
From: Salem, IN
Dual CP3's are quickly becoming a fashion statement. Seems to be taken seriously, people think they need duals to keep up with the Jones'es. I assure you that 90+% of people would be very happy with a good single CP3. Single CP3 evolution has come a long way in the last year. Personally, I think it is far more impressive to have a single CP3 make big power, and support VERY large injectors.
As for the half load conjecture, concerning the shared load of duals. The theory is full of holes. Pressure does not multiply, volume does. If you are making 25,000 psi to the rail, both pumps individually must make 25,000 psi. Sure one pump could make more than the other, in that case one pump would make more, the other would make less. For instance, one pump could make 23,000 the other could make 27,000 and the gauge would show an equilazation from the 2 in tandem. The half load nonsense is a selling point. Pressure is what wears out the CP3, the ability of duals to create it very quickly can lead to accelerated wear. Think about it!
Will duals do all you will ever need, maybe. Will they outlast a big single, doubtful. Also another thing to consider is the side loading from the serpentine belt. I have taken Cummins pumps apart from dual applications, the top pumps start wearing the shaft bushings very quickly. The coating coming off the bushing can end up ruining a CP3.
Someone looking for power in the 900 range on fuel alone, should more carefully consider the options.
As for the half load conjecture, concerning the shared load of duals. The theory is full of holes. Pressure does not multiply, volume does. If you are making 25,000 psi to the rail, both pumps individually must make 25,000 psi. Sure one pump could make more than the other, in that case one pump would make more, the other would make less. For instance, one pump could make 23,000 the other could make 27,000 and the gauge would show an equilazation from the 2 in tandem. The half load nonsense is a selling point. Pressure is what wears out the CP3, the ability of duals to create it very quickly can lead to accelerated wear. Think about it!
Will duals do all you will ever need, maybe. Will they outlast a big single, doubtful. Also another thing to consider is the side loading from the serpentine belt. I have taken Cummins pumps apart from dual applications, the top pumps start wearing the shaft bushings very quickly. The coating coming off the bushing can end up ruining a CP3.
Someone looking for power in the 900 range on fuel alone, should more carefully consider the options.
Dual CP3's are the same price if not a little cheaper than a single pump so I'm not quite sure what your saying when you say keeping up with the Jone's. Do you sell a dual cp3 kit or just singles?? I agree 90% of the people out there would be happy with a good single pump. If I was going to buy pump/pumps again, I would put dual cp3's on it. The only reason I would do a single pump is if there was some kind of rule stating just a single cp3 allowed. In hilljack southern Indiana every truck pull is run what you brung and hope you brung enough. I'm sure there are excessive wear points to both duals/singles.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 80
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Duals cheaper than a single???
Average dual kit $1700.00-$2300.00/ no pump
Used CP3 $300.00+ and it could be bad or weak
New CP3's average around $700.00 with varying core charge prices
Good single CP3's are well south of $2k.
Maybe you paid alot less but the pricing above is current, as to most all vendors.
Average dual kit $1700.00-$2300.00/ no pump
Used CP3 $300.00+ and it could be bad or weak
New CP3's average around $700.00 with varying core charge prices
Good single CP3's are well south of $2k.
Maybe you paid alot less but the pricing above is current, as to most all vendors.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 359
Likes: 0
From: Salem, IN
Duals cheaper than a single???
Average dual kit $1700.00-$2300.00/ no pump
Used CP3 $300.00+ and it could be bad or weak
New CP3's average around $700.00 with varying core charge prices
Good single CP3's are well south of $2k.
Maybe you paid alot less but the pricing above is current, as to most all vendors.
Average dual kit $1700.00-$2300.00/ no pump
Used CP3 $300.00+ and it could be bad or weak
New CP3's average around $700.00 with varying core charge prices
Good single CP3's are well south of $2k.
Maybe you paid alot less but the pricing above is current, as to most all vendors.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 359
Likes: 0
From: Salem, IN
I run a stage 2 and a stock cp3. I'll be running an S-400 for next year. Hopefully don will have some bigger injectors out for next year. I hope Marco gets us 3rd gen's some more rpm as well. It don't sound like I'm asking for much.
Administrator/Jarhead
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 14,965
Likes: 19
From: Jacksonville, NC
Boys, lets not turn this into a vendor war... Please keep is civil.
(I can hear the war drums beating off in the distance...)
I would like a responce to Shane's statement about the top pump wearing bushings out really fast because of the S-belt... Just more info, please. Shane, I value your knowledge. Don't think that I am questioning you, but I want to see what the dual CP3 guys have to say about that.
I'm leaning toward duals, however, I had heard a rumor about a stage 4 pump that would flow ~85% of duals... just a rumor...
(I can hear the war drums beating off in the distance...)
I would like a responce to Shane's statement about the top pump wearing bushings out really fast because of the S-belt... Just more info, please. Shane, I value your knowledge. Don't think that I am questioning you, but I want to see what the dual CP3 guys have to say about that.
I'm leaning toward duals, however, I had heard a rumor about a stage 4 pump that would flow ~85% of duals... just a rumor...
Administrator/Jarhead
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 14,965
Likes: 19
From: Jacksonville, NC
Registered User
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 603
Likes: 0
From: shreveport la
I have debated on this also. I thought of a stage 3 floor it but for a little more i can have 2 pumps(got a 2nd pump already) So for the difference of 100 bucks i think i will go with duals unless i get a test unit. Thats how i feel. Jmo.
Banned
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
Boys, lets not turn this into a vendor war... Please keep is civil.
(I can hear the war drums beating off in the distance...)
I would like a responce to Shane's statement about the top pump wearing bushings out really fast because of the S-belt... Just more info, please. Shane, I value your knowledge. Don't think that I am questioning you, but I want to see what the dual CP3 guys have to say about that.
I'm leaning toward duals, however, I had heard a rumor about a stage 4 pump that would flow ~85% of duals... just a rumor...
(I can hear the war drums beating off in the distance...)
I would like a responce to Shane's statement about the top pump wearing bushings out really fast because of the S-belt... Just more info, please. Shane, I value your knowledge. Don't think that I am questioning you, but I want to see what the dual CP3 guys have to say about that.
I'm leaning toward duals, however, I had heard a rumor about a stage 4 pump that would flow ~85% of duals... just a rumor...
These increased displacement CP3's are impressive to say the least, will they ever equal dual CP3's, of course not. All these components have their place, weigh the options and make your best choice.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,597
Likes: 0
From: Indiana
jwb600...
I have helped Mark aka bigman tune his truck. There is nothing left...out of fuel.
Stage 2's are nice...sure work well IMHO up to 650 hp for most (my wall too)...but more fuel is needed.
Anyone can tune a spike on a dyno...DON"T USE A SMARTY THEN! Big fat flat power curves takde AMPLE fuel.
Dual Pumps...or a Stage 3 or stay OEM in my book.
I went back to an OEM pump for a month before my duals...fine tuned my electronics a little...still made 620.
I have helped Mark aka bigman tune his truck. There is nothing left...out of fuel.
Stage 2's are nice...sure work well IMHO up to 650 hp for most (my wall too)...but more fuel is needed.
Anyone can tune a spike on a dyno...DON"T USE A SMARTY THEN! Big fat flat power curves takde AMPLE fuel.
Dual Pumps...or a Stage 3 or stay OEM in my book.
I went back to an OEM pump for a month before my duals...fine tuned my electronics a little...still made 620.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 341
Likes: 0
From: Alaska
There aren't any manufacturers selling complete dual pump kits for less than $1800. Complete duals with pump will usually cost at least $2000.
Most of the advertised prices are for kits without pumps.
Most of the advertised prices are for kits without pumps.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 842
Likes: 0
From: Fresno, Ca
I already have a second pump, but John's single deserves a shot.