bkrukow

I agree with mixer man. Ideling them should be no problem but Star wants us to think it is so that they can get out of warenty work. They seem to be spending more time and money avoiding fixing these trucks than if they would just suck it up and fix the problems. Personaly this is the last DC product I will ever own. Star just took a perfectly good truck and made me mad at it and them.

Shifterpilot69

Maybe its not the injectors!! For at least some of the KNOCKS described here.

I have a 2005 3500 4x4 HO and I had 3 injectors replaced over 25,000 miles. None of which cured the problem. I also pull a race trailer that puts my total weight at 23,000 lbs at leaset 20 times a year. Most trips are over 500 mileswith the trailer. So, I am working my truck hard much of the time.
One time they put the truck on the machine that cleans the fuel system and injectors by circulating cleaner through the system. They also put an injector cleaner in the tank and told me to run a full tank of fuel to finish the job. Dod not do anything. At least this was all done under warranty.

The last time I went for the injector knock, they found and replaced a bent (or damaged) pushrod.

BINGO----No more knock.

I dont know how they tested for it, but it worked.

grandblanc

Below is the invoice description from the service work that was done before Thanksgiving, 13,262 miles.

please check-knocking noise in engine-when warm
can be heard at idle
cause excessive idle time causing deposits
reset trip information and duty cycle information
trip information and duty cycle info
enabled idle up feature with DRB
correction-diag audible noise from fuel injectors-performed
injection kill procedure, #2-#3 injectors noisy.
contact hotline-instructed to swap #2 with #1 and #3 with #4 fuel injectors
noise changed on fuel line-called back to hotline
instructed to replace #1 and #4 fuel injectors-replaced fuel injectors
noise still audible-call hotline-was instructed to perform cylinder perfromance test with readings, also instructed to perform duty cycle monitor with readings-inspected injection pump noise-test and backlash called hotline back with readings was instructed to perform trip information tests with readings called hotline-told to perform cylinder performance test with CP3 duty cycle solenoid unplugged (maximizing fuel pressure)
approx. 20,420 PSI. #1 injector showed 76% decrease from previous normal fuel pressure of 6,745 PSI.
called hotline-was told to swap #1 with #4 and reperform performance test.
#1 went to 118%
#4 went to 71% assuring a flow problem-replaced fuel injector


All this and the thing still knocks, maybe worse than before. I now have 15,263 miles on it. I took it back to the dealer and they took it directly to Cummins in the Milford, MI. area. Hopefully they can figure out what is wrong. I'll keep posting updates.

bkrukow

Shifter Pilot- Did yours knock from day one or did it gradualy grow. Mine started as quiet as could be but around 4000 miles it started developing a tick that now at 13000 miles is almost a full blown knock. Personaly I hope the engine destroys itself so I can say see I told ya something was wrong. Now its gona cost ya 10 times more to fix it.

HdPower

Mine is very similar to bkrukow with the exception of the full blown knock noise. I do have the ticking that sounds like an old gasser with a stuck lifter that remains even after the engine is at operating temperature. I wonder if this could be a bent pushrod??

bkrukow

Mine started that way. It just gets worse and worse. I dont think it is a true knock but that is what it sounds like now. Like I said I hope it flat out blows up. Then there wont be any question what is wrong.

Shifterpilot69

bkrukow,

Mine started at amout 4,000 to 5,000 miles and got worse and worse until about 25,000 mile. I had 3 injectors replaced over that time and NONE of them made a difference. After 3 injectors that did not fix the problem, they found and replaced 1 pushrod. They did not even tell me about it. I checked the ticket when I got home and I ahd to call them to find out what the push rod was that they changed.

I now have 36,000 miles and I have had no knocking for 11,000 miles.

bkrukow

Thanks. I will try and get it in to the dealer and try and talk them into checking push rods. I dought that will hapen but it is worth a try. I like the truck but I am sick of DC and Star. They seem to spend more time and efort avoiding warenty work than if they would just let the Techs do there job. Do you have any idea what was wrong with the push rod? I dought it was bent because I would think that would be obviouse when checking valve lash. Unless it was set wrong from the factory and got bent at at inital start up. Then the if the valves where ever reset before sending to Dodge no one would ever know. Or was there some other problem with the push rod ?

Shifterpilot69

bkrukow,

The service writer just told me it was bent. But I am sure he did not have a clue.

The problem started about 4000 miles on the odometer, so I dont think it happened at initial startup. Also, the first 4000 miles had about 2600 miles of pulling a 13,000 lb trailer. At excatly 1000 miles on the dial I did not want to waste any time breaking it in.

It took about 15,000 miles before the noise got real loud, and the Injectors did have some issues per the shutdown tests, but I dont know if they could be related somehow?

bkrukow

Thats interesting. I would think with a bent push rod the valve clearence would be out but maby not. I dont know.

RamWheelsBy4

Most of this is posted on another thread, but I wanted to add it here also.

Summary:
First 7500 miles smooth idle, no ticks/knocks, no smoke any time and start cold just like when warmed up.
Then started rough idle, tick/knock at idle and low rpm acceleration, some sputtering/misfires on cold start and white smoke on cold start. After warmed up it started and ran ok.
Finally took it to the dealer on Wednesday morning and told them the problems.
First day the ran tests with nothing showing out of normal ranges.
Told them to keep overnight and then tell me everything normal. In the morning they called and agreed with me about symptoms.
They gave me a rental car on Thursday evening since they were going to keep the truck another night at least. Cost covered under warranty repair.
Picked up the truck today at lunch, the service invoice and info follows. It appears that the dealer has some flexibility in dealing with Star and Warranty work. Some Service Departments are better than others. I am very happy with my dealer's Service Department.

The dealer finished my truck early, they kinda of hurried the final testing procedures Star instructed. This is the Service Invoice.

J# 1 14DOZ DRIVEABILITY TECH(S): 238
Customer states hard to start in am. A lot of white smoke out of the exhause/knock or tick noise. Seems to run better when warmed up.
Duplicated concern.
DRB tested performed diesel injection diagnostic testing. Testing determined leaking fuel injector when cold. Leaking fuel directly into cylinder.
Contacted Myron at Star Center for information on determining which cylinder is leaking. Myron stated to remove exhaust manifold and restart engine to determine which cylinder has smoke. Removed exhaust manifold as instructed. Cylinder #6 injector failure.
Diagnosed tested and replaced #6 fuel injector. Removed and reinstalled exhaust manifold as part of diagnostic procedure per Star instruction.

Parts QTY 1 FP-NUMBER R5135790-AB DESC. INJECTOR 14099006 Price 0.00

I just picked it up and drove back to work. The tick/knock at idle and low end acceleration seems to be gone. Idles smoother for now. Tomorrow I will know about the cold start problems. But for now I am happy.

This is my personal advise from experience. After you have driven your truck for a while, you know how it acts, sounds and performs with your driving habits. If it starts acting different in a negative way, then find out why.

I have read every post on this and 4 other diesel forum sites related to 600s having new noises/ticks/knocks/etc/white smoke/etc. Half of the replys sound like my dealer for the first day, its a diesel and its supposed to be noisy. Trust your gut feeling and if you believe something is really wrong chances you are right.

grandblanc

Finally heard back from the service manager at the dealership. Cummins is going to replace all six injectors; hopefully this works and the knock will be gone.

bgisse

bgisse

An Electronics technican would say the injectors are not electronic if they don't have a diode, chip or such in them. A electrical trained person would say the injectors are electric/mechanical because they are a mechanical device controlled by electrical powered magnetic device . My first exposure to injectors was on 100KW Cummins powered generators. Those injectors were mechanical. An electrican says current flow positive to negative, a electonic technican says directly opposite. They are both right becauce the electrican is talking about current flow external to a battery/power source while the electronic technican is talking about current flow inside a vacuum tube/or battery. Telling my age aren't I, a lot of you have probaly never seen a vacuum tube other than a scope tube. Sorry I got off track.

N.Johnson

Ah!! Think about this grasshopper injectors inards are cams controlled by electronics? YOU GUYS CRACK ME UP!