Dave, different fuel systems. We see a lot of fuel related problems here in Alaska, primarily related to dry fuel. Low lubricity causes premature failure of high pressure pumps. As the pressure increases in the newer injection pumps (20,000 psi on some of the new engines!), the manufacturing tolerances decrease, making fuel quality that much more of an issue. You don't see that problem on the Cats as they are typically HEUI systems (not sure about the Detroits -- it's hard to get through all of the oil on the engine .

As far as the lift pumps failing -- not sure whay, as they are a low pressure pump, and we see a LOT of failed ones up here in AK.

Cheers,
SIA

 

bhoeffner, we see a similar failure rate here in Alaska. Someone else referenced the differences in fuel #1 vs #2, which is a definite contributor (I was just involved in meetings with one customer who suffered 39 injection pump failures on 25 units, THIS YEAR ALONE).

Cummins has a kit out that will provide you with a warning if your lift pump fails. Check with your local Cummins distributor, or see below:

Parts List & Installation Instructions for Fuel Pressure Switch
Parts List

Qty Part Number Description

1 3628750 Normally Closed 2 psi pressure switch
1 Sourced Ring Terminal
1 3822921 Female Deutsch repair wire
1 Sourced 18 gauge wire (appx 3’ for engine mounted filters)
1 Sourced 1/8 NPT tapped banjo bolt (see note below)
1 3963983 Sealing Washers (quantity 2 per package)

Note: The 1/8 NPT tapped banjo bolt can be sourced from the following vender
until it is released in the Cummins parts system.

Parts Vendor: Geno’s Garage
1150 Samples Industrial Drive
Cumming, GA. 30041
Order Line 1-800-755-1715
www.genosgarage.com
Part Number: BF-LT Individual Tapped Banjo Bolt
Installation Instructions

1. Remove the banjo bolt from the fuel filter housing outlet.
2. Install the tapped banjo bolt into the fuel filter housing outlet. Replace sealing washers (3963983) if originals are damaged and torque banjo bolt to 18 ft-lb.
3. Thread pressure switch (3628750) into banjo bolt and torque to 15 ft-lb.
4. Install Female Deutsch repair wire (3822921) onto one end of 18 gauge wire.
5. Unplug 23-pin OEM connector and insert the Female Deutsch wire end into pin “U” (OEM side of connector). Re-install 23-pin OEM connector.
6. Route other end of 18 gauge wire from 23-pin connector to the fuel pressure switch and cut to required length.
7. Install Ring Terminal onto end of 18 gauge wire.
8. To check proper operation of circuit, start engine and take the ring terminal to ground, fault code 779 should go active after 5 seconds and the yellow check engine light will come on.
9. If fault code 779 is not set, recheck connection at pin U of 23-pin connector.
10. If circuit is functioning correctly, install ring terminal to set screw on pressure switch and tighten.
11. Clear any counts of fault code 779 that were set during circuit check.

CAUTION: If the Engine Protection Shutdown parameter in Insite is ENABLED, the engine will shut down after 60 seconds of active fault 779. This switch is recommended for use on units that have Engine Protection Shutdown parameter DISABLED and not on units where the customer is required by law (or by preference) to have this parameter ENABLED.


NOTE: ISB Phase 4 engines: Early ISB engines built in 1997 and early 1998 use ECM Part Number 3942335 or Part Number 3942858. Engines built with these Phase 4 ECMs will not support the fuel pressure switch or fault code 779.

Fault Code 779 is the Auxiliary Engine Protection fault and is described below.

Auxiliary Engine Protection is set up as an additional input to regular Engine Protection. A switched input may be used as an auxiliary input to regular engine protection. Activation of auxiliary engine protection occurs 5 seconds after the switch input is closed to ground, this causes the yellow warning lamp to illuminate, and the fueling derate to begin (same fueling derate as coolant level). Twenty five seconds later the fueling derate will reach full derate. If regular Engine Protection Shutdown is programmed ON via the programming tool, and after a fueling derate occurs the red warning lamp will flash for 30 seconds (5 seconds after the full derate). After this and engine shutdown will occur.

Note: Engine speed must be above 500 RPM before this switch input is recognized. A total of 60 seconds expires from the time that the switch is closed till the engine is shutdown.

Note: Pin B5 of the OEM 50 pin connector is also tied to this feature. This is a fault lamp driver (low side driver with a sink current capability of 600 ma and a leakage current of 300 micro amperes for 12V0 that will active when Pin U of the 23 pin OEM connector is grounded.

Note: An engine protection Fault will be recorded if this feature causes and engine shutdown.
HOPE THIS HELPS.

Cheers,
SIA

 

I'm new here and just learning about diesels.., would I benefit form this system you mention above? I understand the 05 has the newer pump in the tank.
What if I add Stanadyne to every second tank full?
Whats the sense in a warning mechanism (cost of install and warning device itself) if the pump fails it fails, doesn't it?
I just don't get the pump failure thing..it's not like this is there first day out at the races!

 

Friend of mine lost his LP yesterday, 65k miles, '03 305/555. I think it has to be the fuel.

 

I looked on Stanadynes web site and they rcommend there conditioner where there is fuel with "low sulpher lubricity"
From the Stanadyne site:

What exactly is low sulpher diesel?
It is fuel which has been hydrotreated at the refinery to reduce sulpher to no more than 0.05% by wieght. It is the legal specification required for all on-road diesel applications and is for enviroment reasons. The biggest negative side effect is the reduction of diesel fuels natural lubricating properties. The sulpher itself is not a lubricant, it is the actual hydrotreating process which has this effect. Beware of any additive which claims to "put back the sulpher and restore lubricity" - it doesn't work like that!

 

I had a lift pump failure on my '96 in 2002. Worked one day and the next morning nothing. Towed to nearset dealer and replaced. (Mechanical). Approx 180,000 Ks

cheers f

 

Were you using a conditioner regularly at the time?

 

I don't think it is fuel related.

Could it be because Canada is colder? Meaning the grids cycle on and off more. Ever notice the fuel pressure when the grids are on? It drops by 2-3 psi. It drops due to lower voltage to the fuel pump motor. Power surges are not good for an electric motor right?

Just a thought eh?

 

I think it is the high rate/weight of tax on Diesel fuel causing lift pump failures in Canada.

 

A few thoughts...

Diesel fuel quality related to economy is mostly related to density. All things being equal a denser fuel will provide better fuel economy (assuming the same loads & speeds). In some ares there tends to be lower density of the fuel, but there is a minimum density spec that a refinery must meet (but the difference is small & unlikely to be noticed by most). Once again some refineries are better than others and also the climate zone you are in has an impact on this.

In terms of additives, there are few additives that have a major impact on fuel economy either way, refinery or oil company added( there is a distinction as 1 refinery many supply several retails oil companies). These addiditives usually are lubricity additives & may contain other additives intended to improve performance (such as static Dissipator, and sometimes stability additives). None of these impact fuel economy but could effect mechanical parts in the fuel system if they are off spec.

Some diesel fuel contains an additive package that includes a detergent & so would be expected to improve fuel economy, or depending on what they are using and how much of it is being added could be affecting lift pumps and injection pumps.

If a metering pump was way off, or if the tanker still had a small quantity of gasoline in the compartment before loading, this could really affect fuel quality.

So as you can see in the above, the fuel quality can be adversly affected by the chain of custody from the refiner to the service station and also includes you the consumer who may be adding (or not) their own additive and or storage problems.

Low density, low lubricity, statics and contamination are major contributors to lift/injection pump failures, but I think the #1 cause is poorly designed and manufactured fuel systems including the filtration.

 

Palmtree, welcome to the website. I'll check to see if this kit applies to the common rail engines. My gut thought is "No", due to the fact that the lift pump is theoretically incorporated as part of the injection pump assy, according to the drawings I've seen. The system was intended to indicate to a driver when his/her lift pump failed, so that it could be replaced before the much more expensive injectino pump failed due to low pressure from the lift pump, debris from the lift pump, etc. I'll post what I find later this week . . .

Cheers,
SIA

 

Well, here we go agian.

Just towed mine in to a Calgary dealer a couple of hours ago.

Lift pump failure #2, this one at 69500km.

What are we going to do??

 

I would start running either Stanadyne, PowerService, Howes, non detergent 30w motor oil or 2 cycle oil in each tank to lubricate the lift pump and the injection system.

MikeyB

 

What KIND of failure is it with these pumps? Is it a gear/lobe pump? Is it the gears that fail or the casing? motor? My next pump that fails and I'm sure it will, It's coming home with me and I'm going to tear into this little evil piece of junk.

With my truck, I shut it off for about 30 min. It ran fine up until I had shut it off. Go to fire it back up and no go. Do these things sieze up. Has anyone had these things fail while driving? I work with all kinds of pumps at work and if there is a failure, we tear them down and find out what happened. Maybe DC should try this!

 

Thank you MikeyB

FYI: as suspected the dealer also agree with my diagnosis, they must be brainsurgeons!! The regional distribution centre was of course closed today, so order will not even be received until Monday AM, and it is on a national restriction and release, BS in my opinion. But Gary, the shop manager at the NW Calgary dealership told me that Chrysler are expected to solve this with a system ala 05s. This is being discussed at a level above the dealerships. The service advisors were not aware of this, but I have known Gary for several years and he used to work at the dealer where I bought my 3 Dodge trucks. The replacement liftpump "aka" the improved testpump" will continue to fail time and time again, he said. This may be an Alberta problem, due to the very high failure rate here.

He offered to look in to the cost for me to get the in-tank pusher pump as 05s.

So. again wait and see, good think I got a spare truck.