Well your opinion is a respected one and I appreciate you taking the time to help me out.

I have somewhat of a bang shift already just from doing the VB. I don't need anything harder than that! So I'll go with a single. I do not pull more than twice a week usually, and then it's highway miles, not like downtown Chicago. And weights are usually around 22K GVW.

EDIT: What about stall speed? I have 35" tires and 3.73 rear end (or is it 3.55?) so do I want to specify a stall speed? Or just look for something in a range of maybe 1700 - 1900?

 

The 3.73 gears are standard. AAM doesn't install 3.55's.

Stall is a funny thing becuase it can change so much depending on power levels. At 325 HP you can have 1700 rpm stall, at 400 HP or reducing the TQ management that might go to 1900.

These trucks by default start defueling at 1800 rpms as part of the fuel management. At 1600 rpms its 40-50% of what would be normal. Set the stall too low and not reduce a lot of TM and the truck is doggy on the bottom end. Then you have to feed it more fuel with not enough air and you get smoke. Anything less than 1700-1800 ends being a fight to find a balance, especially towing.

Now flip it around and look at the other aspect of a TC, efficiency. Efficiency is what puts the TQ on the ground. It is going to be prevalent when the rpms are up and the sprag in the TC is locked. The stock TC is roughly 70%, that really needs to be around 85-87% for a good tight fluid coupling. You get naturally get lower stall with a tighter coupling so the TC build has to take into account several things.

I think the ideal would be 87% efficiency at speed, a flash stall around 1700-1800 and a full brake stall at 2000-2100 rpms with an input TQ of 800 ft\lbs and 425 HP.

I figure that is a $1200-1300 TC. Just need to talk to a builder and have them do it for testing.

 

not sure if this is of any value, I overhauled my own tranny, installed all the billet stuff(servo's), one piece frt band ,billet flex plate, georend VB and a tripple TC...BUT I have a 47re in my 03, it shifts nicely, no banging, just nice smooth solid shifts, I suspect its because I don't have a 48re VB, as I believe they run much higher pressures(full pressure VB).

...or maybe I got lucky

 

Have you ever driven one of Dave Goerend's trannies? He will set it up the way you want it. I haul horses also, so he set it up for a good shift. No banging in gear. It does matter how the parts are put together. Poor assembly job can be a nightmare. Dave can flat out setup a VB, that's for sure.

 

There is very little diference in the 47 and 48RE, mostly hard parts. The biggest difference is in the shift\lock strategies from the early CR's to the later ones. Trucks that have a TH are the worst because the stock programming in TH pulses the lockup when the 3-4 shift happens. Works fine on a single disk becuase it will unlock the clutch and give some slip before it locks again. The triples take longer to unlock becuase of the multiple disks and a lot of times they don't on a 3-4 shift with lots of throttle. Hence knock the dust of the headliner when it happens. The earlier trucks just don't have the aggressive shift algorithms, neither do the 2nd gens. A triple works great in those trucks also.

Even my single under load and lots of throttle is aggressive into 3rd lockup and the 3-4 shift. Enough to surge the turbo in drive and flat WOOF it on the OD shift unless I keep my foot in it. I cringe thinking about what a triple would be without some mods.

Yes, if Dave was building it I am positive it would be great. LostLake sounds like he wants to do it himself and try to preserve his investment so far, like me. Its another $4-500 for a custom VB, that could be a deal breaker for some.

Its not that I don't think a triple can be made to work, I don't know how to make it work with the newer trucks. That tends to color my opinions somewhat when offering any advice or experience. If I or anybody else bought all the parts form Goerends would he tell us exactly how to setup the VB? Could I or another builder get it right? Can we get it right with the TransGo kit in there? Maybe, maybe not. Its a big unknown and I don't like brushing it off with a "it can be done" and not understanding how.

Then I just sound like a cheerleader.

Then there is always the input shaft thing. A stock shaft will work with a single and some power upgrades. The single just will not hit that hard unless you are really thrashing it. Not so with a triple. It is even more dangerous to an input when you are NOT pushing the rpms. Even on a 12V when turned the power up and went to a triple disk it had BETTER include a billet input or someday going around a street corner at 30 mph and stabbing the throttle things quit working. Tends to ruin your day.

 

I have emailed Denise at Goerend and she said with towing I would probably want more pressure than my Transgo kit would allow. The Goerend VB is $670.

So this is where I am so far:
I know zip about transmissions.
I don't want to do this again.
I have a Smarty jr and tow heavy sometimes.
The parts to build my own will cost TC $1300, VB $670, Kit $1000, Total = $3,000
Dave sells this transmission complete for $3950
So for $1000 and some shipping charges (unless I drive down there) I can have Dave build the same trans, get a 100,000 mile warranty and he'll test it, drill holes or whatever it needs, and all that jazz.

I'm cheap, but I'm not stoopid!

So at this point, I don't see the value in building my own if I buy Dave's stuff anyway. I believe $1,000 to $1,500 is what a good TC will cost, I believe the VB will be around $500 - $800. Maybe I don't need all the stuff in the kit, but maybe I should get upgraded stuff. Like the billet input, which is $600.

By the way, I got my slip-in front band yesterday and it sure looks beefier than the stock one. I also got my metal plunger thingy that replaces the plastic one. So tomorrow I'll drop the pan again and put those parts in, adjust my bands and test drive the truck. I'm going to watch trans temps close after learning about the cooler plugging thing... Oh, and a new trans will mean a new cooler and flushing the lines.

 

If I were you, I would drive down there and have Dave install it, tweak, tune it.

 

What he said, I wish he could of done mine.


If you pull over 17,000 GVWR Dave is going to recommend at billet input shaft anyway. He did for me. 15 blade left cut TC is perfect. Not too tight, not too loose. We chose that due to my turbo no spooling so quick. It is in the 87-89% effiency range from what I remember.

 

Isn't the tweaking and tuning done on his dyno with the trans out? Do you guys think there is a benefit going right to his shop?

 

Lost Lake:

I am getting in here a little late on your thread and questions about your tranny, but see some info here that I don't agree with.

You asked about triple vs single disc. FWIW, a single-disc Dodge torque converter has about 34 square inches of lock-up clutch surface area. Most of the triple-disc converters are between 115-120 square inches of lock-up clutch surface area. In my opinion, that is a big difference! While it is true that any 48RE tranny needs to be properly set-up, that is true with BOTH a single or triple-disc converter.

I agree that the triple-disc converters can shift somewhat harder, but I can tell you that my Stage VI "ATS" Transmission shifts firm but not what I would call hard. It also does not surge my turbo or cause any type of "woof" during the OD shift either. And I am running an aftermarket Schwitzer S-300 Turbo too. Again, if it is set-up right, I see no drawbacks to having the three disc converters. I also tow heavy (15,000+) and occasionally race my 2006.

Also, Dave Goerend is good at what he does. I feel he would do a good job for you if you decide to go to his shop or one of his dealers.

Good luck Sir!

----------
John_P

 

Stock TC yes, a good aftermarket no. That 34 square inches gets increased to around 60 sq inches in most high end TC's.

The quality of the material used in the clutches also plays a large role here. Stock linings are paper compared to some of the better ones.

The equation to determine how a clutch functions is holding force = pressure x area. There are 2 ways to get to the same destination.

Line pressure has multiple uses in the trans so comparisons start to get a little harder. The drive train clutch packs benefit with higher apply pressures where a triple disk doesn't need increases, and, you may not want them for the obvious reasons. With a single disk trying to split those pressures and adapt them isn't neccessarily needed. With a triple it is mandatory hence the $690 VB to make things work correctly. Any time you introduce complex changes the potential for problems or failure goes up.

Its not really an agree\disagree ideal, but, more about suitability and efficacy.

 

Thank you for the input John!

I believe Dave would know how to set up the trans to use his triple so I have no fears there. I would probably stay away from a triple if I were doing my own build though...

I always said when the time comes I'd go with Dave, and the time is here. Parting with the money is the hard part!!! Realistically we are talking $4,000 for the trans, $600 more for the input, and maybe $500 or more for the install? Add tax, travel, hotel, and I'm well over $5500. Close to $6k.

That's a lot of coin when a guy figures the local shop is selling a Jasper trans for $3,000 plus $550 install. Jasper has a long list of upgrades they do to the 48RE also, and they put a 100,000 mile nationwide warranty on it.

I'm really running on the advice of this group of people right on this forum. Nobody wants to spend more than they have to, but nobody wants to waste money either. What good is a Jasper trans if it slips in 30,000 miles? And the truck goes down and the BS of getting a warranty starts.... That's another thing I have heard is Dave takes care of his owners. If there's problems, he's available to talk through it or even take a look...


EDIT: I was posting while you were No_6. You really know your stuff and your comments about the triple kind of scare me. You wouldn't say it if it wasn't true. Goerend boosts pressures way up there, I forgot what Denise said, something like 140psi instead of 95psi? That and a triple have to be a pretty strong unit if t works.... Here goes the $6,000 gamble....

 

A word about Jasper, don't go there. Their transmission is only a slightly better than stock build. If your lucky. Its a commodity built trans, good luck on attention to detail. Good luck with the warranty also becuase there have been several that got warranty denied due to abuse. A warranty is only good if the company will stand behind it.

On the other hand, some have had good luck with the Jasper. A lot depends on how you want to use it.


I am NOT trying to scare or dissuade, only educate on the potential. Good and bad both. In the end its your money so you get to make the decision, hopefully with enough info to make it wisely.

I see the comments about the pressures. I read earlier what the same person said about a TransGo kit. Rather than dispute it here is what we set my trans up for:

line pressure at idle - 85 lbs
line pressure at 1600 rpms - 160 lbs
line pressure at 2500 rpms - 210 psi
line pressure max - 240 psi

I have a TransGo kit.

 

----------------------------------------------------------
Lost Lake:

You are very welcome Sir! You should update your trucks transmission based on what YOU want to do with it (i.e. towing, drag racing, sled pulling etc.) As you see, there are alot of options for the 48RE transmissions and you can get into some serious money while building them.

--------
John_P

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
No disrespect to you Sir, but choosing an aftermarket transmission for a Dodge CTD CR truck DOES get down to whether I "agree or disagree" with what the particular company is marketing, selling and installing. I am sure you want an example so I will give you one. A few years ago, there was a transmission builder that installed single-disc converters with a little more than the stock 34 square inches of lock-up clutch surface area. Their approach was to install the single-disc, use upgraded clutch packs and internals but then crank the line pressure WAY UP to hold the power. They also relentlessly attacked ATS for their Triple-Lok Converter and other triple-disc companies saying "it would not last" and that you couldn't have a transmission last with the transmission making "locked" shifts. Well,......that was about ten (10) years ago now and I am here to tell you that what that company said about the triple-disc converters was DEAD WRONG!! There have been thousands of the triple-disc Dodge CTD CR converters sold by ATS and others and they have held up great. I am living proof of it as I posted earlier. My 1996 Dodge CTD 12 valve which has 800+ H.P. and over 1500 TQ. ran the Triple-Lok for almost four years and close to 200 drag race launches with no problems whatsoever! I now run the newer "ATS Five-Star" Torque Converter and have had excellent luck with that newer converter too.
At the time I was trying to decide what to upgrade to (much like Lost Lake is now) I "did not agree" with what that "other" company was selling and am glad now I did not buy their product! FWIW, I do not believe the triple-disc is "a complex design" like you do, so therefore with all due respect I disagree with you on that.

---------
John_P