im not pro or con, but knowone really knows, we do however have a lot of speculation. additives might ad lubrictiy but not to the point where it can be said that yes for a fact this additive saved my vp from destruction.i used to add legal and nonlegal, i still lost my vp, for 2 years now ive added nothing to both my 99 and 05 and as of yet have no probs..these additives are just starting to cost too much, add their price to the allready high price of weasle fuel and your approaching absurdity..not all vp failures are the result of poor lube., the problem lies in the fact that the vp was only used in the cummins because they had no way to meet epa regs at that time period...they didnt want to spend r&d to develop a pump because they knew common rail was in the close future and that is where the money was spent...the vp is used with great success in other applications so they solved thier problem...i belive the vp when used in the truck application is pushed to its limits.

 

"Studies" done by people trying to sell something or promoting what they believe to be the best thing since sliced bread, perhaps.

The people to check with is Bosch, the manufacturer of your pump. At this writing the only ULSD fuel additive endorsed by Bosch, that I'm aware of, is Standadyne Performance Formula. Bosch does not market or manufacture any of their own additives.

The problem with additives like two-stroke oils and automatic transmission fluid, aside from the legal issues, is that they are designed to lubricate engines and transmissions and many times contain metals (such as molybdenum disulfide) in particle sizes up to 100 µm, which can easily damage the three pistons and distributor rotor in a VP44. Your VP44 is manufactured with considerably tighter tolerances than engines and transmissions, and therefore requires a different lubricant. I'll guarantee you beyond the shadow of a doubt that you mix two-stroke oil at a 20:1 ratio with your diesel fuel, your VP44 won't make it 10,000 miles. If you don't beleive me, try it - then be sure to publish the results of your "study".

Folks, I have John Deere 6.8L PowerTech, and Cummins ISB/QSL9 engines in marine, genset and farm tractor applications that I service, equipped with the Bosch VP44 - some of them with over 20,000 hours - and the injection pumps have never been removed from them since new. These engines many times operate at full rated load for hours on end, at horsepower ratings up to 275 and fuel rates up to 121 cu mm/stroke, with absolutely no additives used in the fuel.

Of course, the offroad and marine applications have one thing going for them that the Dodge truck application does not - real fuel filtration systems with 10x the water separating ability of the chincy fuel filter in the Dodge RAM, and lift pumps that are less prone to failure.

I don't wish to argue the point with anybody - just providing the information. It's unfortunate that there's too much of that information out there, especially on the internet, that's bad.
--
Chris Olson

 

Ok... I'm just a guy that drives a truck.... I'm nothing like a scientist but I'm also not deaf. I've ran 2cyl oil for well over 10k miles and the only thing I have noticed is a quieter truck and a slight increase in fuel mileage. I bought my truck with 245,000 miles on it and now have over 280,000 miles on it. I started with the 2cyl oil within 15k miles of purchase. The only time I WONT use 2cyl oil is when I get lucky and have B20 or better available to run.

I've never seen ANYTHING that says its illegal to mix 2cyl with diesel fuel.
got a link for that?

-Tim

ps
I mix 1oz to 1 gallon

 

Like I said, I'm not going to argue the point, merely provide the information, OK?

If you're a fleet operator with a US DOT number look in your Federal Compliance Manual under 40 CFR Part 79. Perhaps the Code of Federal Regulations is available on the internet someplace, I don't know, and I'm not going to waste my time looking it up - that's for you to do. As a summary to that part, it states that any additive for gasoline or diesel fuel must be registered with the EPA as a fuel additive for the fuel it is being used in.

Secondly, you can refer to the list of registered additives for diesel fuel that is available on the internet on the EPA's website:
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/a...e/web-dies.htm

The fine for burning an unregistered fuel or additive in the US is minimum $1,000, maximum $10,000. Suffice it to say if you decide to burn two-stroke oil in a diesel it's not wise to advertise it on a public website.

I can appreciate that you're just a guy that drives a truck. I'm just a guy with 32 years of experience that's a certified Caterpillar, Cummins, Detroit Diesel and Volvo tech, and I just live around diesels every day.
--
Chris Olson

 

When I ran a stock lift pump and filter system I tried the 2 stroke my filters would not make even 5,000 miles or less than 30 days I would loose power ect. pull the filter out and it would be charcoal black in color it did not take long to stop using 2 stroke and with out it my filters went back to looking like a filter when I changed them yellowish colored paper and did not have to change so often. This was my experience I dont care what anyone wants to run in their tank that is their business and it must work for some they have quieter motors and gained mileage kudos to them it did not work for me

 

Chris,
it's your opinion and your free to share it, thats what the DTR is all about...
However, you've been a member of the DTR less than a month and have a TOTAL of 6 posts... several of those posts include somewhat threating statements and all of them have something about how long you've been a diesel mechanic and how much knowledge you have on the subject of the VP44 injector pump.....

I'm willing to accept that you've been working on diesel engines and VP44 pumps for a long time... And I'm even willing to accept that you might be right about 2cyl oil not being a good thing to put in my fuel tank....

But as soon as you threaten the rest of us users with things like it's illegal and such and such fines for using it.... you sorta loose us....

There are ALOT of opinions on 2cyl oil on this web site and on others that say its a GREAT additive... there are several that say its done nothing for them, more that says its quieted their trucks and increased their fuel mileage a bit. NONE of them threatened anyone with the possibility of fines or suggested they shouldn't post in an open forum about their "illegal" activities.

I chose to use 2cyl oil based on a lubricity study that I read that said aside from bio-fuel the 2cyl oil was the next best thing to increase cetane rating of diesel fuel. I believe it was done by or atleast reported in the TDR. Which has no hidden agenda to sell me a specific product.....

SO... how about dropping the threats and just keep it to sharing ideas?

My 2cents...
-Tim

 

I think that finding and posting what you have for facts may help your side of the debate. I am not harping on ya or saying you are wrong, but if you post the info-and are right, we all can sit back and learn something new-thats what the site is all about

 

Threats? LOL! Somebody said they had never heard anything about two-stroke oil being an illegal diesel fuel additive. I posted the facts - the law. Gave you references to look it up yourself. If that makes you feel "threatened", then so be it.

And please tell me just what difference it makes if I joined the forum two hours ago or two years ago? I've been in the diesel engine business virtually all of my working career, looked at this site because one of my customers recommended it, I work on dozens of Dodge Cummins trucks every year, so I thought I'd sign on the forum to share some of my experience. If that makes you feel "threatened", then so be it.

I don't have to justify my experience to you or anyone else here - like I said I'm just offering information. If you don't like my information, then ignore it. But don't use it to launch some sort of attack on me simply because you feel "threatened" or my information contradicts the self-proclaimed "experts". Got it?
--
Chris Olson

 

Hey! Chris,
What's a good additive that would provide good lubrication to a VP44 and quiet the truck down? I have used 2 stroke oil in my truck a few times and I did noticed it got quieter but I don't want to wreck my VP44.

 

Lets be honest here, just about anything we do to our trucks is against the law. My 24v came with stickers saying that tampering with exhaust by disabling, removing it or changing it with anything other than OEM is against the law. As you are well aware, the 24v exhaust system has zero emission equipment in it. Different injectors would be illegal since they are not designed to be within emission specs. Bumping the timing would also be illegal, since NOx emissions would increase. What I have done to my dually would be terribly illegal (luckily the EPA has no jurisdiction in Canada).

The point of that is that we are more concerned with what benifits our trucks than what the law says, with in reason of course. I ran two stroke oil in my truck. Ran smoother, ran quieter. That was 100:1 ratio. Not sure why anyone would run a 20:1 ratio, considering right on the bottle it reccomends 50:1 up to 100:1 ratios. Different strokes for different folks.

 

This is where I admit to complete ignorance.....
what is 1oz to 1 gallon???
Honestly, the reason I run at whatever that ratio is, was due to the majority of people that posted about running 2cyl oil stated that was what they used..
-Tim

 

I'm not really in the business of recommending fuel additives, beyond the additive package that your fuel supplier uses, because I've never seen any benefit from using them. Everybody is trying to sell something these days and fuel additives are sort of like oil additives in my experience - if they're so Edit hot-tip, just why the hell don't the fuel and oil suppliers put this "good stuff" in their product so you don't have to?

Everybody has their "secret formula" or "best additive since sliced bread" that works better than the next guy's. But me, I save my money for other things - I got 20,000+ hours (the equivalent of over 800,000 miles) on VP44 pumps that have never had a single drop of additive put in the fuel beyond what comes in it.

Granted, you buy cheap straight #2 diesel fuel instead of burning premium, or run a slug of water thru your VP44, it's going to shorten its life. But even then, your "miracle additives", including two-stroke oil, aren't going to save it.

The worst possible people to ask is some injection pump rebuilder that sells their brand of "miracle additive". They paint a picture of gloom and doom if you don't use whatever it is they sell. Then you get on the internet and the picture of gloom and doom is spread like wildfire. Pretty soon people BELIEVE you HAVE to use SOMETHING or your pump is screwed.

Well, I'll tell you what - the people to ask is the people that made your pump - Bosch. Bosch has been building fuel injection components for a long Edit time, and they won't tell you you need ANYTHING except good quality fuel from a reputable supplier.

That's just my experience with the issue. YMMV.
--
Chris Olson

 

1 gallon = 128 fluid ounces. If you're using 1 oz oil to 128 ounces fuel, the fuel/oil ratio is 128:1.
--
Chris Olson

 

I think that pretty much covers it on my part.....
Thanks,
-Tim

 

Here's another way to look at it:
Over a normal oil change interval of 7,500 miles, let's say you get 15 mpg pulling your RV. You burn 500 gallons of fuel over those 7,500 miles. You also burn 3.9 gallons of oil.

Now, take that 3.9 gallons of oil, dump it on the shop floor, light it on fire and take a good look at the residue left on the floor after it gets done burning. Or even better yet, take a two-stroke engine apart and take a good look at the residue left on spark plug electrodes and deposits on combustion chambers, piston crowns and exhaust ports.
--
Chris Olson