Hi all,

While changing my oil today I checked up on my turbo health. It has had a slight internal oil leak since I got it as you can see. So I decided to check for play in the shaft and it has a little bit. Nothing major, no metal shavings in there, but it has some play. How long can I keep running this thing? Truck is mainly just a DD right now. Also can it be rebuilt or does it have to be replaced? Can anyone recommend a rebuild kit or good a replacement turbo? I don't plan to make crazy power so I don't necessarily want to upgrade unless someone has a really compelling reason. It is for the truck in my sig.


I am also curious about this.


Clearly that is some very fine metal wear and it was caught on my magnetic drain plug from Geno's. Is it anything to be concerned about?

 

I cant tell in that picture whether or not the turbo compressor seal is leaking a little or if the PO happen to use an aftermarket air filter like K&N, or any other "oiled" air filter. But if you're concerned or want clarification, you can take off the turbo and inspect the compressor side or look in the charge tube making sure the leak isnt caking the intake side and the intercooler with an oily mess.
But again, if there was an oiled air filter on there, that would be my first suspect.

As for the drain plug..... Well the OEM plug isnt magnetic so the likelihood is that not too many, if any, have seen what you're seeing. Meaning, I'm not sure what to think about the metallic sludge you're getting other than if it really concerns you then send an oil sample to Blackstone for an analysis. Blackstone Labs That will give you some insight as to whats going on in there. You could also cut open the oil filter and see whats collecting. By the way, what oil filter are you using? And have you noticed this metallic sludge every time you change the oil or is this a new thing?

But ALWAYS fully clean off that plug every time you drain so that next time you can see if more collects. I have magnetic plugs on one of my motorcycles and those plugs have metallic sludge on them every time I change the oil.

 

The PO did have a k&n :-( I guess eventually I'll have to look into that turbo some more. Right now I'm mainly concerned about the drain plug. This only my second time changing the oil with the this truck and the first time with that drain plug so no I've never seen it before. And it is so fine I highly doubt you could see it in the oil if the magnet hadn't caught it. I was planning to do an oil analysis with black stone but I forgot my sample kit at home in NY so I couldn't. I am using a Fleetguard LF16035. I used that last time and it's what I put on this time. PO had a k&n. Last changed I used rotella 15w40. This time I switched to Valvoline PB extreme 5w40 synth. I did clean off the plug. Is there a specific way to cut open the filter?

Someone on another forum recommended doing a few short drain interval changes (300miles)and dumping a half gallon of oil through the engine with the plug out to flush that metal out. What do you think of that idea? He thought it was iron wear or dirt from the po k&n. What do you think of that? To me it seems pointless because this change was just under 3000 miles, and the filter and magnet on the plug should be catching it all, and it's soooo fine, not like it's pieces of metal. What are your thoughts? plus it would be extremely expensive. Also if I'm going do do an analysis on this change should I go 5000 miles or should I go less to figure out what's going on?

 

Just figured I'd update you. A turbo rebuild kit from DAP is on its way. From what I told them about the turbo they said the metal is probably from the turbo bearings. If you have any info on rebuilding an HX35 please post it!
Thanks!

 

Well.....a few things cross my mind by what you said.

First, no dont bother doing a "flush" oil change. That sounds silly because you'll never flush the engine like that and if there's metal suspended in the oil then the filter will collect it fast. Plus there's many many areas in the engine which can trap oil in pockets and cavities which will take time to clear up. So to think dumping a gallon of oil in there will do anything is a clear misunderstanding of what the inside of an engine looks like and how the oil circulates through it. We're not talking a splash system lawn mower engine here.

Second, the metallic sludge is very yellow in color. Thats "soft" metal colors and almost looks like bearing material. But again, only an oil analysis would help understand whats going on since it will tell you what material you're collecting on the drain plug. And again again.....this could be nothing because very few people have magnetic drain plugs. So what you're seeing could possibly be a collection of material which sits quietly at the bottom of the pan undisturbed until you go sticking a magnetic plug on there which causes it to collect up and give you reason for panic. Thus the added reason for the analysis.....and.....cleaning the plug and checking it every time you change the oil for any less or more material stuck to it.

Third, again, I'd suspect the K&N being the culprit given how the simply are no good for these engines and they allow dirt and oily junk to collect on the turbo inlet. A very common issue and you'll see more pictures of this problem by doing a simple Google search on K&N's on Cummins engines. Plus people tend to over oil them when they clean them and only aggravates the dirty problem. K&N is a decent filter but just not on these engines.

Forth, I guess it could be the bushing in the turbo since its brass/bronze and the metal you have pictured is yellow. But I'd think you should have noticed some excessive movement in the turbo shaft if the bushing was wearing rapidly.

Do keep the thread updated as I'm curious to see what you find out when pulling the turbo.

 

I'm not sure if it is yellow or if that's just a tint from the oil...I thought it looked more like silver/lead/aluminum. But who knows. As far as play in the turbo shaft, I don't really know what it should feel like so I can't say very definively if it's good or bad. Hopefully I'm not rebuilding it for nothing but I really do think it leaks oil because even when I try to wipe it out, it's back next time I take the intake off, and I certainly don't want to coat the intercooler with that if it's not already. And maybe it's nothing like you say. I will take lots of pics of the turbo and update this.

 

I have a magnetic oil plug on some of my Cummins, they do collect some sludge over an oil change interval.
Sending off some oil to Blackstone might be worthwhile though as yours does seem more yellow colored than I see.

Like Katoom said pouring oil through the motor is a waste of oil.

I would pull the inter cooler hot side tube and boots and look for oil inside them if you are worried about oil leaks from your turbo.
The air box intake tube oil is likely over oiling that K+N filter you have on the truck.

 

Thanks for the input! I plan to send a sample to black stone next change, although this was my first time with the magnetic plug. Do you think it is actually yellow? Or just a tint from the oil? If it is yellow I guess that could be from the turbo bearings then, but I thought it really looked more silver like aluminum or lead.

There is no oil in the intake tube, only inside behind and around the compressor wheel. I don't have a k&n. I have a BHAF. My truck had a k&n when I bought it. At this point I am planning to rebuild the turbo, so I'll get to see then what the hot side of the intercooler looks like. It also has some shaft play that I think is at least slightly excessive. Hopefully that is the cause of this all and a rebuild will fix everything right up :-)

 

I am thinking the oil is a trace form the K+N filter when it was installed.
Correct me if I am wrongly assuming that when you recently swapped over to a BHAF, that you didn't meticulously clean out the turbo and air box tube?

I would check the hot side tube and boots BEFORE rebuilding the turbo as the turbo is most likely fine.
You are just one 7/16 deep socket away from loosening a band clamp and popping it off and taking a look.

 

I installed the bhaf about 3000 miles ago. I didn't meticulously clean the turbo, but I did wipe it out as much as I could and the oil comes back as you can see in the picture. As for the tube, I went back to the stock one so it is totally clean and dry. I can certainly check the hot side, but what about the shaft play?

 

ALL turbos have some shaft play, even brand new ones.
Hard to tell what is too much unless you tickle turbos all the time.
If it is not wiggling in and out much - if any, leaking oil into the hot side tube or touching the housing, your probably still okay.

 

I've read down to here and support the advice you are getting From Katoom and Oliver F.

An oil analysis will take a while because they will use your first one as a baseline and need a 2nd and 3rd to really find out what is going on....

 

ok thanks! Ill recheck that stuff. I wonder if it would be best to do the rebuild anyway at this point even if its not touching the housing? I mean I already ordered the kit and it wasn't that expensive...Isnt the housing ruined if the wheels starts rubbing it? It may have in and out play too...I still have to check that. Ill try to take a vid of the play both ways and ill at the very least take pics of the hot side tubing and post them up here for you guys. Once again, I greatly appreciate all the advice!

 

Thanks for jumping in Six! always nice to have multiple opinions! Considering that it will take a while to get samples for a few different oil changes, how long of a drain interval would you run?

 

Yeah you want to catch it before it touches the housing ideally, but remember when the truck is running that it will have 40-50 PSI to help "true" it out as it spins.

That is why even new turbos have some play as there needs to be room for that oil to flow around the bearings.