Oil analysis
08-11-2003, 08:09 PM
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Oil analysis
Sent off my first sample from my new to me Dodge Cummins for analysis. Got back the report today and am reasurred to find that no corrective action was recommended...everything is apparently within normal ranges. I would however like a little more info on what all of these numbers really mean for the different contaminants, wear metals & additives. Anybody here know what this stuff means?
I understand that this sample is to provide a baseline so that I have something to go by when looking at future analysis statements....just want to have a better idea of what I am looking at. Thanks in advance!
I understand that this sample is to provide a baseline so that I have something to go by when looking at future analysis statements....just want to have a better idea of what I am looking at. Thanks in advance!
08-11-2003, 10:49 PM
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Re:Oil analysis
I used Blackstone Labs for my oil analysis and they provided a spread sheet indicating what the numbers/properties mean. Checkout this site: www.bobistheoilguy.com
On the homepage there you'll be able to find the answers to your question. A wealth of oil related info there. Judged by the UOA reports I've seen on this Cummins, including mine, it's a clean running machine.
On the homepage there you'll be able to find the answers to your question. A wealth of oil related info there. Judged by the UOA reports I've seen on this Cummins, including mine, it's a clean running machine.
08-13-2003, 12:22 AM
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Re:Oil analysis
all you folks talk about oil analis but ill tell you this they do not amount to much unless there is antifreez in it. period.
the lab[s] can only give you a average on regular send ins .
In the end it only shws you somthing if one eliment jumps out of spec on the average of your eng. period.
been there / done that.
thats my opion.
the lab[s] can only give you a average on regular send ins .
In the end it only shws you somthing if one eliment jumps out of spec on the average of your eng. period.
been there / done that.
thats my opion.
08-13-2003, 08:54 AM
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Re:Oil analysis
[quote author=thumper 549 link=board=4;threadid=18286;start=0#msg171863 date=1060752124]
all you folks talk about oil analis but ill tell you this they do not amount to much unless there is antifreez in it. period.
the lab[s] can only give you a average on regular send ins .
In the end it only shws you somthing if one eliment jumps out of spec on the average of your eng. period.
been there / done that.
thats my opion.[/quote]
I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you. An oil analysis tells you nearly everything. I tells you what you don't have in it - and not just antifreeze. Everyone loves to get a report back that it is good, "Just like last time there is nothing bad to report about your oil". I just love it.
That is correct but, if "one element jumps out of spec" it is better to find out sooner than later. You may find there is antifreeze - or fuel - or metal, etc. It will tell you that there is a problem developing and give you a chance to solve the problem before major harm is done to the engine.
People buy extended warranties. Getting an oil analysis every oil change or every six months or however you choose to do it, is some of the cheapest insurance you can get for your CTD and you don't need to wait for an average. I wish every dealer who sells a used vehicle would have to have an oil analysis with it. Since they don't, as soon as I buy a used vehicle and have put a couple hundered miles on it, I have the oil analyzed. I want to know immediately if there is anti freeze, fuel etc. in the oil. You never know why the last person who owned the vehicle turned it in for another one.
I pay my insurance every six months and hope I never have to use it. I have my oil analyzed every oil change and hope it comes back telling me that everything is OK with my CTD.
Yep. We all have our oil analyzed for a reason, even though it looks foolish to some - it really isn't.
Sorry for the soap box.
Stan
all you folks talk about oil analis but ill tell you this they do not amount to much unless there is antifreez in it. period.
the lab[s] can only give you a average on regular send ins .
In the end it only shws you somthing if one eliment jumps out of spec on the average of your eng. period.
been there / done that.
thats my opion.[/quote]
all you folks talk about oil analis but ill tell you this they do not amount to much unless there is antifreez in it. period.
In the end it only shws you somthing if one eliment jumps out of spec on the average of your eng.
People buy extended warranties. Getting an oil analysis every oil change or every six months or however you choose to do it, is some of the cheapest insurance you can get for your CTD and you don't need to wait for an average. I wish every dealer who sells a used vehicle would have to have an oil analysis with it. Since they don't, as soon as I buy a used vehicle and have put a couple hundered miles on it, I have the oil analyzed. I want to know immediately if there is anti freeze, fuel etc. in the oil. You never know why the last person who owned the vehicle turned it in for another one.
I pay my insurance every six months and hope I never have to use it. I have my oil analyzed every oil change and hope it comes back telling me that everything is OK with my CTD.
Yep. We all have our oil analyzed for a reason, even though it looks foolish to some - it really isn't.
Sorry for the soap box.
Stan
08-13-2003, 10:14 AM
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Re:Oil analysis
I dont think you disagreed with me. on regular basis you send them in they can show a devation... but just one sample nope ! and they will tell you that..(the lab)
and of corse if there is a horable thing going on in the deep dark places you are goin to know it be fore that [one ] sample ever leavs for the lab..knock . knock knock...
cummins will tell you to cut open your oil filter and look in ther..its ez to see mettle parts ,hard to see chemicles.
t.m.o.
and of corse if there is a horable thing going on in the deep dark places you are goin to know it be fore that [one ] sample ever leavs for the lab..knock . knock knock...
cummins will tell you to cut open your oil filter and look in ther..its ez to see mettle parts ,hard to see chemicles.
t.m.o.
08-13-2003, 08:04 PM
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Re:Oil analysis
Well, I'll hafta side with Bearfoot - I have had close experience with 2 different owners who had analysis pay off in situations where a visual inspection of the oil or filter would NOT have provided ANY clue as to impending disaster!
One fella got a report of unusually high silicon (dirt), that left as it was might have seriously damaged his engine - he found a significant leak in his intake tract and made repairs - but probably would NOT have been aware of it without the analysis.
Another fellow got a report of high antifreeze content - nothing that would show in the oil or filter - but COULD easily damage engine bearings and other components if not corrected - a new headgasket fixed him up...
And as far as a single sample not being of any value, any decent lab DOES have existing contaminent averages for various engines and lubes, and CAN rather easily tell when a specific contaminent is out of spec - they don't particularly require a long history of tests before thay are able to make that sort of determination...
Remember the old saying - "you can pay a LITTLE now, or LOTS later" - your choice...!
One fella got a report of unusually high silicon (dirt), that left as it was might have seriously damaged his engine - he found a significant leak in his intake tract and made repairs - but probably would NOT have been aware of it without the analysis.
Another fellow got a report of high antifreeze content - nothing that would show in the oil or filter - but COULD easily damage engine bearings and other components if not corrected - a new headgasket fixed him up...
And as far as a single sample not being of any value, any decent lab DOES have existing contaminent averages for various engines and lubes, and CAN rather easily tell when a specific contaminent is out of spec - they don't particularly require a long history of tests before thay are able to make that sort of determination...
Remember the old saying - "you can pay a LITTLE now, or LOTS later" - your choice...!
08-13-2003, 08:08 PM
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Re:Oil analysis
We do oil analysis at work on all our equipment and trucks every p.m. They absolutley pay for themsleves. I supose if you didn't know what you were reading they wouldn't. We send on average 15 samples a day in. We even pull emergency samples which have told us tons of info. One sample can make a difference.
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08-13-2003, 11:44 PM
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Re:Oil analysis
Thanks to all for the comments...glad to hear that many of you who are experienced with diesels think highly of the value of regular oil analysis. It just seemed to me to be a good way to learn what is going on inside your engine. Thanks to Ruralmedic for the link www.bobistheoilguy.com...I learned a lot there. I'll probably be changing oil more frequently than I have to...and doing an analysis along with it. Hard to go wrong for ten bucks.
Love my Dodge Cummins...and appreciate all the info on this site!
Love my Dodge Cummins...and appreciate all the info on this site!
08-14-2003, 05:40 AM
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Re:Oil analysis
The report I get back from Analysts Inc has a break down on the back side of the page that tells you where everything comes from in detail. They have even called me on one ocassion when they found high iron levels in the sample and asked me all kinds of questions which I thought was very nice of them. Once I explained everything, they were satisfied and said send another sample when you get ready.
08-15-2003, 06:33 AM
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Re:Oil analysis
[quote author=Relentless link=board=4;threadid=18286;start=0#msg171336 date=1060650578]
Sent off my first sample from my new to me Dodge Cummins for analysis.
I understand that this sample is to provide a baseline so that I have something to go by when looking at future analysis statements....just want to have a better idea of what I am looking at. Thanks in advance!
[/quote]
Will you be posting your numbers on here? That would be a help, I have seen many analysis and would be glad to help you decifer what it say's.
Though I will warn you! reading those anaysis on bobistheoilguy, can scare the average personal. Some folks on there are over critical. They are basically looking for 0 numbers in all wear metals.
I've seen analysis with over 100,000 on the oil without a change. Once the wear metals stabilize they rarely change unless something is wrong.
Also other aspects of the analysis especially concering extended drains are TBN, Nox, Oxd, Fuel, Soot. By monitoring these aspects you can extended you oil changes dramatically.
Even without the use of by-pass filtering doubling your interval should be no problem as long as your using a top quality oil.
It really isn't rocket science, once you get a handle on your person vehicle, you will have the confidence that your truck is running in top condition, and you will spot potential problems before they arise.
you can send me an email anytime if you have specific questions.
Sent off my first sample from my new to me Dodge Cummins for analysis.
I understand that this sample is to provide a baseline so that I have something to go by when looking at future analysis statements....just want to have a better idea of what I am looking at. Thanks in advance!
[/quote]
Will you be posting your numbers on here? That would be a help, I have seen many analysis and would be glad to help you decifer what it say's.
Though I will warn you! reading those anaysis on bobistheoilguy, can scare the average personal. Some folks on there are over critical. They are basically looking for 0 numbers in all wear metals.
I've seen analysis with over 100,000 on the oil without a change. Once the wear metals stabilize they rarely change unless something is wrong.
Also other aspects of the analysis especially concering extended drains are TBN, Nox, Oxd, Fuel, Soot. By monitoring these aspects you can extended you oil changes dramatically.
Even without the use of by-pass filtering doubling your interval should be no problem as long as your using a top quality oil.
It really isn't rocket science, once you get a handle on your person vehicle, you will have the confidence that your truck is running in top condition, and you will spot potential problems before they arise.
you can send me an email anytime if you have specific questions.
08-15-2003, 07:00 AM
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Re:Oil analysis
Be glad to post the numbers...Truck is an '01 Dodge Cummns with 108,000 mi. and to the best of my knowledge the oil change interval when I bought it was 7500 mi. Oil used was Delo 400 15W40
Viscosity CST 12.30
Fuel soot 0.3
Fuel <.05
Water <.05
Silicon 3
Copper 4
Lead 0
Tin 0
Iron 55
Aluminum 2
Chromium 2
Molybdenum 39
Nickel 0
Silver 0
Titanium 0
Vanadium 0
Antimony 0
Sodium 5
Boron 33
Potassium 6
Magnesium 383
Calcium 2287
Barium 1
Phosphorus 1342
Zinc 1380
There you go.....be glad to hear your comments.
Viscosity CST 12.30
Fuel soot 0.3
Fuel <.05
Water <.05
Silicon 3
Copper 4
Lead 0
Tin 0
Iron 55
Aluminum 2
Chromium 2
Molybdenum 39
Nickel 0
Silver 0
Titanium 0
Vanadium 0
Antimony 0
Sodium 5
Boron 33
Potassium 6
Magnesium 383
Calcium 2287
Barium 1
Phosphorus 1342
Zinc 1380
There you go.....be glad to hear your comments.
08-15-2003, 09:20 AM
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Re:Oil analysis
Viscosity is a high 30wt. no problem as you don't have fuel dilition or anything.
Iron is higher than I've seen, but most analysis are less than 7500 miles, so that could account for that. Though I've seen Iron PPM over 100 with no worries as well.
No OXD, NOX or TBN, or glycol, I would suggest that you find a different lab. That is if you are interested in extending your drains.
I have kits available as well. They are $20 which include shipping both to you, as well as prepaid to the lab.
But for the $10 your spending now it will work if your not into extended drains.
I get the kits through Amsoil, but the service is done through CTC, which you can get online analysis reports:
http://www.ctclink.com/testingServicesOil.cfm
Iron is higher than I've seen, but most analysis are less than 7500 miles, so that could account for that. Though I've seen Iron PPM over 100 with no worries as well.
No OXD, NOX or TBN, or glycol, I would suggest that you find a different lab. That is if you are interested in extending your drains.
I have kits available as well. They are $20 which include shipping both to you, as well as prepaid to the lab.
But for the $10 your spending now it will work if your not into extended drains.
I get the kits through Amsoil, but the service is done through CTC, which you can get online analysis reports:
http://www.ctclink.com/testingServicesOil.cfm
08-15-2003, 10:53 AM
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Re:Oil analysis
Thanks for the comments...I intend to change oil/filter at 5000 mile intervals for a while and see how it goes. Next change will be due in about a month and I am interested in seeing how it compares.