lets see . . . .
2 vent windows + 2 door windows + 1 rear slider = 5 windows ;-)

 

Your system was designed for R-12. PERIOD.
Put it in. 134A systems are not very benign over long periods of time. (you'll get a little bit of acid over time..sometimes even if you are careful..)

I have not used 414 before, but the specifications sheets on it, ever since it came out, did impress me, and if I ever HAVE to change my R12 to something else, it is going to be the 414 blend.

The only scary thing about 414 I can find is that in tests,...it will go black after a period of time (that doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad sign,,,it's just unexplained and always pointed out by the enemies of the 414 blend).

R134-A systems...If you must change your system to R134, please remember these 2 things.
1) Exposure to R134A has PROVEN, now that we have a track record, to increase your chances of having testicular cancer ...of all things.
2) If you are changing over, no matter what anybody else tells you, vacuum your system down...way down to nothing. And then leave it there, vacuum some more an hour or two after that. And then vacuum some more after that...and you better be using a very good vacuum. ..... oil and R134A and moisture lead to an acid that will, for sure, over time, degrade your pump. But it usually doesn't happen real soon. (Good business for automotive a/c techs...you have forgotten that your a/c system should last a very long time..by the time you have to take it back to him a few yeaars later and have the whole thing re-done again. WHich is very good for him. Bad for your checkbook.

Remember, all the "good" things they try to do to show you that 134A is good...is when they compare it with R12 IN A SYSTEM DESIGNED FOR 134a. There is no comparison if you have an R12 system and are in phoenix or vegas, and all of a sudden are using R134A. They will never show you the difference of a system designed for R12 when you put 134A in it.

OK
That's my 2 cents. The whole automotive a/c policital thing discusts me. They took the safest, most benign and longest lasting, and least expensive refrigerant, and turned it into some evil thing from hell.

I'm guessing you need 2 and a half 16 oz. cans of R12 to fill your system, but you should look up the specs to be sure. ALSO, put the oil in it that was spec'd out when it was made. I think it's mineral oil and I can't remember the weight. Look it up to be sure. And do not mix oils unless you know for sure for sure that you can. FOR SURE.

 

I still use R 12 I got a case of it from mexico

 

Guys, remember propane is flamable, not good as refrigerant. 134a is not that expensive anymore.

 

134A never was expensive, although not as cheap as R12 (until the mandated price-hikes of course, that forced 30 dollars worth up to around 900 (last time I checked). Unless you are in mexico. I'm guessing you can get 30 bucks worht there for 15 bucks. But it's illegal to bring it in (other than as part of your a/c system).

Propane is used in a few blends. I think there is a small amount of it in R414. I've been told that trailers and RV's for a long time routinely used propane as a refridgerant. And it worked well.

I believe he big car mfgrs. (and I think may be DuPont (I'll let you guess if they are the owners of the 134A formula) was involved...dont know for sure) did that one "set up" crash test made that showed a car going into flames with a propane refrigerant. They did suceed in bamboozeling the whole auto industry into using 134A as a "safe" one, and the truth about their "fake" test didn't come out until later. But just the fact that they had to MAKE that happen ought to tell you how unsafe it really is????????? I mean,
your whole fuel tank is full of gas or diesel, and you are not so paranoid about it...are you.
Of course, they will always bring up the argement that some of the propane get's inside your firewall to cool your coil.
I guess that's correct. But that doesn't give you testicular cancer either.
OK,
I guess I'm just rambling on.

 

R-12 isn't that much more that 134a anymore. I would refill on that if you can find it locally. The only thing that sucks about R-12 is you can't get the little cans anymore and you need a license to buy it but the license is pretty easy to get.

 

i run r-134a and have two ele fans wired thru a penn control (head pressure control)so they only run when a\c is on and pressure is high enough, mine works real good when sitting in traffic with no airflow across condensor coil. and helps the engine keep cooler.also pull cycling switch half way out. and cut the return box a little bigger makes it easy to clean evap. coil mine blows about 38 degrees when its 110 outside. used 414b & freeze 12 i didnt care for either of them. freeze 12 says it ok to use with mineral oil left in system as i remember but compressor warranty says must use ester oil. but what do i know i just found my head gasket blew.

 

[QUOTE=dv_shane;1966758]ifreeze 12 says it ok to use with mineral oil left in system as i remember but compressor warranty says must use ester oil. QUOTE]

Just remember that mineral oil and polyester oil do not play well with each other so it is very critical to flush the system thoroughly with a product like R-11 flush to remove all the oil before changing to a different type. If I remember right it is a max of 2% either way on the mix. Any more and there is a serious risk of clogging up your system with sludge that is created from the reaction between the different oils

 

Are you really getting 38 degrees with the 414 blend???and 110 outside.
What year do you have????
I swear I'm going to take the 134 out of my 98 and vacuum the whole thing a couple times and switch over. 38 is awfully good. My 93 is better than my 98 (still has R12), but my 98 is bearable so I leave it.

 

As far back as I can remember when I was paying $.59 for a can of Dupont
Iglo a can was only 12 ounces. The Auto Parts would confuse a lot of people by leading them to believe a can equals a pound.

I also use Icor R-414b HotShot
http://www.icorinternational.com/hotshot.htmlnt
In my work and have been satisfied with the results.

The only problem I see with HotShot is if there is a leak you cannot "top it off" because 414b will fractionate as it leaks down, so you will need to recover it and recharge it.

Fractionate is when the different component gasses will leave the blend changing the component makeup.

My truck still has R-12 and I an getting freezing results.


Jim

 

R12 came in 12 and 16 oz. cans.
I think also 14 oz cans.
12 oz. was the most common, though.

If you'll do an ebay search (if they still sell it on there)..you'll probably find all 3 sizes...with 12 being the most common.

 

Jim,

I work regularly with the interim blends including R414B and can offer that fractionation is not really an issue with a system that runs regularly if not constantly. To fractionate, the system would have to be static for a while allowing the blend to stratify.
Still though to have the mess run correctly, bottle the remaining refrigerant, find and repair the leak, pressure test w/dry nitrogen, evacuate/dehydrate and recharge to 80% of the OEM (R12) refrigerant weight.

 

I have been a propane user for about 4 years. True, it will cause a freeze up of the evap. The fix was to put a temperature sensor in with an adjustable ****. I pulled one from an old volvo. It turns off the power to the clutch when it get's too cold. You pick the temp. This is a sign of very high efficiency. As to safety, Australia does not allow 134a without a pungent oderant because of it's toxicity. Much of the world is switching to HC refrigerants because they are not toxic and are highly efficient and environment friendly. The larger propane molecule is better for reducing leaks. There is one big caution. It takes about a third as much propane to do the job. Do not overfill.

Why does dodge run their ac at one speed, all on, and use engine heat to reduce cooling? I shut off my heater line in the summer and could not regulate the ac output until I added the volvo switch. Why would people who use gasoline and diesel be afraid of a gas which is much harder to light than either gasoline or diesel vapour. A few ounces of propane are not a problem. I have run several propane fueled vehicles for twenty years without a hitch. Propane gas is HARD to light. A big tank leaking into a closed environment with open flame Will hit the magic air mix and explode. Ever notice how hard it is to light a propane torch? That mix is exact and you have to fiddle a bit to get it to ignite.

Last summer I got dash board vent readings of minus 10 degrees C. Sure I had the fan on medium and it was only about 85 degrees F out but it worked very well.

 

you can play with the charge and type of freon but if you dont have a clean
evap. coil you are just spinning your wheels.
i use a foaming condensor coil cleaner and make sure to wash it all off good or your coils fins will be trashed. but sometimes thats the only way to get it
clean all the way through coil. yes i do get real cold temps at dash but i have cut open the return at evap. where the blend door is, and i run 2 ele, fans on condensor coil. and tinted windows help too,

 

You said that perfectly and I left it alone because I wasn't sure how to say it.
This is becoming and interesting thread.