Hey guys, i went out and installed a pressure gauge and like ive read before, man the neddle jumps around like crazy from that pump. Prob. i think is though the 0-60 liquid filled gauge jumps from 0-15psi and might increase to 20 with increased high rpm. Doesnt this sound like the pump is weak or on its way out? You wouldnt know it though from the smoke it bellows on the couple of test runs? Question is: if im going to replace it i only want to spend the money right and one time, do i replace with a new factory unit or go to a electric pump of some kind? All the pumps im familuar with and like only produces 14lbs, but lots of volume could i try this and would it work- it seems thats all i have now and it runs great besides getting the egt's to hot? If not what pumps have you guys run that work well for our p-pump 12v'ers? Thanks

 

The way I see your post , your looking for trouble , you did not say what you were working on till the end , and then only saying that its a p-pump 12v , no mention of mods to explain the heat or what the heat is .
It runs great , nothing to fix , if it aint broke don't fix it ,
So I see 2 issues , 1st you may have not check the pressure correctly , using a needle valve [ almost shut ] to make the gauge readable , the pulsing is just the gauge reading the piston riding the cam .
You need to use this needle valve to dampen those pulses .
2nd , if you have high heat [ what temps , under what conditions ? ] , to much fuel for the air its getting , maybe a bigger turbo , but you need to tell what your working on [ mod or not ] to get good answers .
I hope you do not take this the wrong way , lack of complete info , makes for lack of good answers .
Old blind guys , frequently stick there foot in mouths .
It wasn't till I posted that I saw the 2nd truck sig .
So I am slightly right , what are those temps , looks like a good truck ?
It may need more air or less foot .

 

I see your point John sorry, i assumed people have been following my issues the last few days with this project mostly here in the 12v section and over some in the conversion section. Anyway i drilled and tapped the open boss on top of the fuel filter housing to 1/8 pipe and have a 1/8 male to 1/4" pipe female adaptor with a 0-60 liq. filled guage. I agree i will need to dampen the hit as you said with a needle valve for a more steady reading but i dought this is going to result in reading pressures like the manual says it should, 22 psi at idle and 30+ at 2500 rpm? Ive been told my egt issue is related to the full cuts i have installed, its a purpose built drag truck thats why i went with those but for the testing ive done just friving up and down the coutry roads i dint know how im going to control the temps. Im looking to borrow or buy a set of tamer DV's to try and see if i might should start my tuning with those and work up to the full cuts later once i have water and nitrous on the truck and the bugs worked out. Dont want to duplicate the talk on all the temps. and data but basicly i put it to the mat for maybe 4-5 sec. on let off the boost was pegged on a 60 lbs gauge and the pyro was coming off 1800*, If this fuel pump is super weak and not supplying properly would this help in temp issue or be just the oppisite? It fueled hard for that short run and smoked like any Pull Truck if ever seen but it was for a very short burst. Need some 181's or 191's and good advise on fuel pump and water inj. system. I have the nos parts and im getting that just about finished, i went with a nos fogger nozzle that i plumbed in the pipe going over the valve covers in the main inlet it is a wet style so that i could do a dual kit in the future if i so ever wanted to go there, i just plan to use a very small jet maybe in the high teens or 20's for a little boost and hopfully some help with temps. Through all the driving the coolant temp has never been over 150* never even enough for the t-stat to open, i used a large aluminum rad. that the dirt trackers use from smilies racing. I would have though i would have seen some heat migration over in the water [cooling system] from that high of egt's . Any way, any other suggestions would be nice..

 

Now I see where your coming from , I had not caught the other posts , I would guess that you would be on the comp/pull forum .
You are beyond what I have done , no pull / race , except to watch .
Are others that pull / race , doing daily driving ?
This seems to me a have your cake & eat too , kinda thing .
This may be where having electronic injector control would be an advantage , now I am going to have an eye out for this , you got me curious , not that I am going pulling , but a way for the mechanical truck to do both .
Back to your question , it can be tricking , you need both a good LP & good OFV , to get the pressures , have you slowly pinched the fuel return to see if pressure comes up ?
If it does the pump should be good , if not then the OFV .
Then the lines & hoses from tank , leaking sucking air , I made a test cap with an old fuel fill cap & a metal tire valve , to put 3 psi into tank , to look for fuel leaks in hoses , lines , normally vacuum to LP pump so no visible fuel leaks , with air pressure in tank you will get fuel to show leaks .

 

FASS, as well as some others make 45psi units. You can get belt driven mechanicals, like RASP, Mitusa, etc. They should also increase psi with rpms. I like my FASS system, so thats what I'd reccomend.

 

You NEED a bigger turbo on that thing, no questions asked... you should be putting down huge power numbers (well over 500, and I'd guess over 600) with 435's and full cut DV's. Your fuel pressure doesn't sound to bad if its at 15psi idle and ~20psi at WOT, your stuffing a lot of fuel in remember. That pressure is fine for a P-Pump, its when you get into single digits that become a problem.

Your looking at this thing like a gasser, and its not. Running lean in a diesel makes your temps go down, running rich is what your doing, which is why you need a MUCH BIGGER TURBO! Your running 60lbs of pressure out of an HX35?!? Your drive pressures are probably close to tripple digits!

Your asking to blow headgaskets, melt pistons, burn valves, and a lot of other stuff!

If you don't understand the basics your going to blow up that engine, because you can't run 435's alone without a bigger turbo, you also can't run full cut DV's without a bigger turbo (you can, but you won't get much more power out of it). You have both put together flowing waves of fuel into your engine, and from the sounds of it your approaching 2000*F, at that heat melting pistons takes just seconds!

Again, I think your pump is fine, I have a good one laying here in the shop, if you want it, pay for the shipping and its yours. But with the amount of fuel your flowing your not going to have stock fuel pressures.

 

Im not sure but i think yall might be getting my two trucks mixed up here? To John, its a drag project not pull and most of my descussion is on this forum either here or in the conversion section [for the 81 chevy 1/2 ton] and thanks i will pinch the return and see what the pressure do. No leaks its all new, 16 gallon cell in the bed and all new -8 supply and -6 return lines from there to pump. I also replaced the OF with the one from Pure Pref. already before i ever cranked it. Tate, dont i need to be concerned with 45 psi on a p-pump? Need95, this is the largest turbo that HTT sells [single] and dave said it would support my goal of 600hp and even do a good job up to 800. Where did you get this HX35 info , were talking about the 81 chevy in my sig nothing else. And ive stated it ran at 60+ lbs for burst of 4-5 sec. only 3 times and have made multiple tuning adj. to fuel and GW to lower the lbs to 45 per Dave at HTT with no good results so far. I will have to see what a reg. 90* elboe will do. Try not to over complicate this, IF a NEW factory style pump will carry the power i will go right down and buy a new one, if not was wondering what electric pump would, Tate says FASS. I would just really like to try someones factory DV's to see if this would get me to the track for some testing because it looks like the full cuts are just going to be to hot to start off with. Like ive said ill go back to them when i get some tuning fiqured out and get used to the truck.

 

ive been following the other posts, and i think he has a pretty good singel charger htt 66/13/71ss. just gona need lots of water with no intercooler. i have a set of 181dvs laying arround that came out of my pump. pm me if you want them

 

I do and i will. Thank You. And yes theres a bunch of other info i tryed to put in my sig but there was a max number of letters that can be used and i had to delete tons of the details on the 12v project...sorry And yes it is the HTT 66/71/13ss as aksparkey01 said. Thanks guys

 

Doesn't HTT use the preload on the wastegate actuator to set the pressures? Try loosening the rod out on it, that should get your pressures down.

 

stock600:

As you know, I have been following some of your posts and problems on the EGT's and fuel pressure issues. I have tried hard to give you my input and experiences with what I have seen on the Cummins 5.9 12 valve engine in my 1996 Dodge.

With that being said, and as I pointed out before, Scheid Diesel has recommended to me that the F.P. on a modified P-7100 Pump not get below 20lbs of pressure at any time. As I think I also told you, at about 680 H.P. on my 1996, my stock mechanical fuel lift pump WAS NOT keeping my F.P. up high enough. At WOT, the F.P. was dropping down to 12lbs!!

So, at that time, I bought and installed the FASS 180 GPH Fuel System. Also, I eliminated the entire stock fuel system including the fuel canister and filter, the stock fuel heater and strainer and the stock mechanical lift pump. I am now running -8 (1/2") fuel line from the fuel tank to the FASS, then from the FASS ALL THE WAY to the P-7100 Fuel Pump. The "idle" pressure is at about 45lbs. (like Tate described) and I never see the pressure drop below 42lbs even under WOT conditions. stock600, you DON'T need to worry about 45lbs of fuel pressure on the P-Pump. It will be fine. I have been running mine like that for a long time now. Heck, I was at 60lbs for about 3 months last summer, but that higher pressure was blowing out the Isolators on my "DiPricol" Mechanical Fuel Pressure Gauge! So,.....I turned it down some.....

Also, I think I covered water injection with you. IMHO, I have NO IDEA of how ANY MEMBER gets by on ANY of the three generation Dodge Diesel Pickup Trucks with 650+ H.P. without running some type of water injection to keep the engine cool. I'll be honest, I CAN'T DO IT on my truck in hot weather! Yes, I am over 800 H.P. on #2 diesel, but even before that, I needed water injection on my truck! At the power level I am at right now, a Two Stage "Snow Water Injection System" would not even keep ALL my cylinders cool! At that time, I was running two .625ml nozzles directly in the air horn and it would not do the job. I am now running a Scheid Diesel Water Injection System with a MUCH higher pressure water pump and FIVE
(5) water nozzles plumbed directly into the cylinder head much like a "wet nitrous system" on a gas car! Now, that system works GREAT and even in very hot/humid summer weather here in eastern N.C., with the water system on, my EGT's will stay right at 1350-1400 degrees. But I will use about a half gallon of water in a 1/4 mile drag race run! Without it on, I can guarantee you I would be near 1700-1800 degrees on EGT'S!!

stock600, like I said before buddy, try those smaller DV's first and see what happens. It looks like DTR Member "aksparkey" will help you out with that!

Hope this helps you some. Keep us posted on your progress!

---------
John_P

 

Thanks John. Well got an odd update, went to a big truck wrecking yard today and found a 12v out of a Big ford. I yanked the DV's out of it and they say 179 on them? Heard of 181 and 191 but not 179, anyway i fiqured it was close to 181 so i took them. Got home and switched them from the full cuts, one thing though- i reused my holders[or what ever you can the part that the valve seats into] and just dropped the 179's right in place of the full cut 181's. Engine sounds diff. dosnt seem to hit as hard, the fuel press. gauge still jumps but not near as much as before. Its still really low, only 8-12 at idle and will go to near 20 under smooth accel. Oviouslly this pump is on its way out, i will just make a plate to cover the hole and replace it with an electric pump. Back to the new DV's: Didnt get to drive it and put a load on it but it idles diff. and smokes a lot less at the blip of the trottle, also it now has a bad MISS up in the rpm. Its not missing down where the afc has it but once you get on it some and you can feel it i guess getting up in the cam plate it misses and sputters badlly and might spit some white smoke at that time?? I tryed easing up to that point and same thing at a point it will start to miss. Is the large 435's demanding more than the 179's can supply? Man this is fustrating it ran great [seemed like] with the other DV's just way to hot for me. I wondered if the low fuel press. could be part but it ran great with the big DV and smoked so much you sure wouldnt suspect it to be running lean? What else could be causing this miss if never heard one do it. Thanks guys, Ryan

 

So has anyone heard of 179's? What del. valves are in the early model 160hp pumps? Any ideas as to why they are missing? I will start my hunt tomorrow for a fuel pump as well.

 

havent heard of the 179's but it sounds like there undersized for the injectors. I couldnt remember if you had stock lines or oversized. when you put an electric pump on just pull the plunger out of the stock lp and bolt it back up.

 

second thought is overflow valve. a easy little trick is to pull it off the pump, pull the top bolt off, inside there will be a ball and spring. i took the spring out of a bic pen and cut it to fit inside the stock spring. seemed to help me at the time. but i dont have a pres guage yet.