Do I need an adjustable upper ball joint? Regular ball joint? Pics inside...
03-01-2008, 06:42 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Nevada
Posts: 2,615
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Do I need an adjustable upper ball joint? Regular ball joint? Pics inside...
Hey guys, I took my truck in to get an alignment/inspection. The mechanic said everything looks good up front. The only thing that may need replacing is the passenger side upper ball joint because of the outer tire wear. Now my question is, do you think I'll need an adjustable ball joint for that? I'd rather not get an adjustable one unless it's my last resort. What can cause the camber to be off? Is my axle bent?
This is the passenger side front tire. As you can see, the outer edge is a lot more worn down than the inner edge. The inner edge also shows feathering.
This is the driver's side front tire. Only the inner edge shows signs of feathering. The outer edge is not wearing prematurely like the passenger side.
Tires are 265 Bridgestone Dueler A/T. Rear is the stock 245's. Just in case you were wondering.
This is the passenger side front tire. As you can see, the outer edge is a lot more worn down than the inner edge. The inner edge also shows feathering.
This is the driver's side front tire. Only the inner edge shows signs of feathering. The outer edge is not wearing prematurely like the passenger side.
Tires are 265 Bridgestone Dueler A/T. Rear is the stock 245's. Just in case you were wondering.
03-01-2008, 07:05 PM
#2
Registered User
If you run tires of different circumferences on a 4X4 something has to give and it will wear your tires incredibly if not cause an accident. Even tires the same size but worn more on the back than the front will cause the tires to scrub. My guess is thats all that wrong.....
03-01-2008, 07:07 PM
#3
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Nevada
Posts: 2,615
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you run tires of different circumferences on a 4X4 something has to give and it will wear your tires incredibly if not cause an accident. Even tires the same size but worn more on the back than the front will cause the tires to scrub. My guess is thats all that wrong.....
03-01-2008, 07:18 PM
#5
Registered User
Yeah, but with the CAD, it's almost like having locking hubs...except suckier
The passenger side axle is completely disconnected from the side gear and the spiders can absorb the difference on the driver side. I agree, 4x4 will produce some kind of bind on dry pavement, but if he's gone far enough to wear those tires out without the t-case exploding, I think it'll be ok. As for the ball joint issue, I dunno, sorry
The passenger side axle is completely disconnected from the side gear and the spiders can absorb the difference on the driver side. I agree, 4x4 will produce some kind of bind on dry pavement, but if he's gone far enough to wear those tires out without the t-case exploding, I think it'll be ok. As for the ball joint issue, I dunno, sorry
03-01-2008, 07:23 PM
#6
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Nevada
Posts: 2,615
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dang it... THANKS GUYS! Other people told me it would be ok to do that before I did it though. Oh well. I've been to Vegas and back and all over the I-5 with this setup. I even used 4wd in the snow once. I hope my t-case is ok. I'll open it up when I change my TC.
Other people told me it would be ok to do that before I did it though. Oh well. I've been to Vegas and back and all over the I-5 with this setup. I even used 4wd in the snow once. I hope my t-case is ok. I'll open it up when I change my TC.
03-01-2008, 08:24 PM
#7
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: North Carolina or Kentucky. Take your pick
Posts: 2,738
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Camber wear would justify the adjustable ball joint. Also convince the alignment guy to set toe at near zero for highway driving. That will help also.
Trending Topics
03-01-2008, 08:41 PM
#8
Banned
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 333
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You are fine with those different sized tires on the front and rear axle as long as your not running 4wd on the pavement... The front axle is just free spooling, so it's not harming anything.
I'm not sure what these other guys are talking about, and to be honest, I don't think they know either
As for the tire wear, put the truck on an alignment rack and see what your camber looks like. With those #s you will be able to figure if you need an offset balljoint and how much offset.
Also how often do you rotate your tires? Every 5-6k is a good idea to keep them from cupping or other irregular wear.
I'm not sure what these other guys are talking about, and to be honest, I don't think they know either
As for the tire wear, put the truck on an alignment rack and see what your camber looks like. With those #s you will be able to figure if you need an offset balljoint and how much offset.
Also how often do you rotate your tires? Every 5-6k is a good idea to keep them from cupping or other irregular wear.
03-01-2008, 08:48 PM
#9
Registered User
I have noticed that most alignment places are lazy and set the toe and such in the "green zone" on the computer but do not pay attention to the degree, for example you can have 1 wheel 3* + and the other 3* - and the alignment computer will say it is ok but your tires will get eatin up and the vehicle will not steer correct, when I used to do alignments at the dealer it was 0 on drivers side and in a few degrees on pass side to compensate for the road crown
03-01-2008, 09:28 PM
#10
Registered User
I had really bad right front outer tire wear like yours on my 97. I ruined 2 new tires in 3 months each until I found a good frame & alignment shop who knew what they were doing and fixed it. Here are my specs from a TDR thread I had on this problem last year. They fixed it by making the camber more negative on the right side. I don't know if your truck has the offset sleeve. If not then the adjustable ball joint is probably what you need:
Here is a link to the thread:
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/f...ng-woes-5.html
Well, I thought I had it fixed! But that tire lasted about 3 months. I then found a highly recommended alignment shop and explained the problem and showed them the first ruined tire and the second one which was still on the truck.
so it takes longer to get all the specs set. After 4 months it appears to have corrected my problem. I requested they keep the caster between +3.5 - +4.5 deg, as recommend on this site, to correct for "death wobble".
Here are the alignment spec's the shop took before and after the camber change:
Before:
Camber: Left= +0.0 deg Right=+0.2 deg
Caster: Left= +3.5 Right=+4.2
Toe: Left=+1/16" Right=+2/16"
After:
Camber: Left=+0.0 deg Right= -0.5 deg
Caster: Left= +3.5 Right=+4.1
Toe: Left=+0/16" Right=+0/16"
The alignment shop said since doing the adjustment at the right front knuckle affects both both camber and caster it took 1 1/2 - 2 hours to do. That was 3 months ago and the tires still show no signs of the outside edge wear I had before.
Prior to this a new BFG KO 245/75/R16-E was ruined in less than that time. I ruined almost 3 tires out of the 6 new ones I put on last July (about 30K miles ago). After this last alignment by a reputable alignment/frame specialist I took my truck back after about 6 weeks cause it appeared the left front tire was now showing outside edge wear. They checked everything again but they said everything was OK. I guess I was getting real sensitive to this issue and maybe over-reacted regarding seeing the left tire wear. I rotated the tires so many times it may have had the wear from before the fix. I'm keeping an eye on it.
I found this shop by calling a 4X4 parts/accessories shop and asking for a good alignment shop. They said they do 4X4 alignments but when I explained all the problems I'd been having, he referred me to a frame shop that they use for problem alignments like mine and all the dealers send their problem front ends to this guy also. This shop charged me $130 to fix it and said they back up their work. If anything is wrong he said bring it back and they would fix it for free.
The alignment shop said that the tire shop (a well known chain that I go to all the time for tires) did align it to specs but they just don't know how to correct it for problems. All they do is get it in spec with their fancy laser alignment machine but this guy did it the old fashion way...no fancy alignment machine can help correct a problem that is in spec. You have to know what your doing.
The alignment shop said the trucks camber was in spec (barely) but that the spec is so wide it could still cause problems. Everything in the front end was tight according to them. They removed a offset cylinder thing on the right front knuckle and replaced it to change and make the camber more negative to compenstae for the tire wear. This adjustment required replacement of the offset sleeve (cylinder) which changes both the caster and the camber
Here are the alignment spec's the shop took before and after the camber change:
Before:
Camber: Left= +0.0 deg Right=+0.2 deg
Caster: Left= +3.5 Right=+4.2
Toe: Left=+1/16" Right=+2/16"
After:
Camber: Left=+0.0 deg Right= -0.5 deg
Caster: Left= +3.5 Right=+4.1
Toe: Left=+0/16" Right=+0/16"
The alignment shop said since doing the adjustment at the right front knuckle affects both both camber and caster it took 1 1/2 - 2 hours to do. That was 3 months ago and the tires still show no signs of the outside edge wear I had before.
Prior to this a new BFG KO 245/75/R16-E was ruined in less than that time. I ruined almost 3 tires out of the 6 new ones I put on last July (about 30K miles ago). After this last alignment by a reputable alignment/frame specialist I took my truck back after about 6 weeks cause it appeared the left front tire was now showing outside edge wear. They checked everything again but they said everything was OK. I guess I was getting real sensitive to this issue and maybe over-reacted regarding seeing the left tire wear. I rotated the tires so many times it may have had the wear from before the fix. I'm keeping an eye on it.
I found this shop by calling a 4X4 parts/accessories shop and asking for a good alignment shop. They said they do 4X4 alignments but when I explained all the problems I'd been having, he referred me to a frame shop that they use for problem alignments like mine and all the dealers send their problem front ends to this guy also. This shop charged me $130 to fix it and said they back up their work. If anything is wrong he said bring it back and they would fix it for free.
The alignment shop said that the tire shop (a well known chain that I go to all the time for tires) did align it to specs but they just don't know how to correct it for problems. All they do is get it in spec with their fancy laser alignment machine but this guy did it the old fashion way...no fancy alignment machine can help correct a problem that is in spec. You have to know what your doing.
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/f...ng-woes-5.html
03-01-2008, 09:49 PM
#11
Registered User
Here are some pics of my right front tire wear referred to in the post above.
:
EDIT: BTW the wear was much worse than the pic could show. They were 3 months old. The tire shop would not even rotate them to the rear on my dually. They said it was worn thru to the belt almost. Needless to say, I didn't let them align it but found a good frame shop to fix the problem that they said was my fault even tho I bought 6 BFG KO's from them and they did the alignment! That's when I decided to start doing my own front end diagnosis and repair and added all the aftermarket front end stuff in my sig
03-01-2008, 10:18 PM
#12
Registered User
If you get under there with a pry bar, can you see play in any of the balljoints?
If you jack up that side can you feel any play in the wheel bearing?
I had the same thing happen awhile back it was the balljoints.
If you jack up that side can you feel any play in the wheel bearing?
I had the same thing happen awhile back it was the balljoints.
03-01-2008, 11:30 PM
#14
Registered User
It's fairly rare to see a camber problem on these trucks. The axle housing or knuckle usually won't bend unless it has seen serious abuse. I would bet the tire wear is due to a simple toe problem. If it is toed out, the tires will scrub and tend to wear the tread off the inside of one or both front tires. Likewise, too much toe-in will scrub the tread off the outside. I have looked at these aftermarket offset joints, and haven't been impressed enough to want to try them on anything. They have a fixed amount of offset that must be divided between camber and caster upon installation to get a final reading that's useable, and I've decided that they should be a "last resort" only.
On edit: sorry, just noticed you have a 96. Thought it was newer. Dodge has adjustable camber sleeves available for these trucks. Have only used them once or twice. I find their use acceptable,(more so than offset balljoints on the newer trucks) but still think your problem is more likely to be a toe issue.
On edit: sorry, just noticed you have a 96. Thought it was newer. Dodge has adjustable camber sleeves available for these trucks. Have only used them once or twice. I find their use acceptable,(more so than offset balljoints on the newer trucks) but still think your problem is more likely to be a toe issue.
03-02-2008, 02:25 AM
#15
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Nevada
Posts: 2,615
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Doh! I just had a whole response typed but accidentally closed the window.
Thanks everyone for the replies! Nate, you made me feel better.
Dave, that's very helpful. I'll take those specs in to the alignment shop. Just curious, did you ever try these specs?
http://www.dodgeram.org/tech/specs/00_steer_specs.html
I'm kinda in a pickle. I don't want to throw in a new regular ball joint and then end up needing a camber sleeve. On the other hand, I don't want to get a camber sleeve without trying just a new bj first. Nor do I want to pay for an alignment first just to hear: "You need a new ball joint," if that turns out to be the case.
Kawi600, was there noticable play in your ball joints when you replaced them? There's no noticable play in mine. I hoping it's still the culprit though. I really don't know what else could cause a camber problem. As Torquefan said, shouldn't really be an issue with these trucks; hopefully you're right about the wear. But if it were a toe problem, could it cause premature wear on both the inner AND outer edge of the tire at the same time?
Thanks everyone for the replies! Nate, you made me feel better.
Dave, that's very helpful. I'll take those specs in to the alignment shop. Just curious, did you ever try these specs?
http://www.dodgeram.org/tech/specs/00_steer_specs.html
I'm kinda in a pickle. I don't want to throw in a new regular ball joint and then end up needing a camber sleeve. On the other hand, I don't want to get a camber sleeve without trying just a new bj first. Nor do I want to pay for an alignment first just to hear: "You need a new ball joint," if that turns out to be the case.
Kawi600, was there noticable play in your ball joints when you replaced them? There's no noticable play in mine. I hoping it's still the culprit though. I really don't know what else could cause a camber problem. As Torquefan said, shouldn't really be an issue with these trucks; hopefully you're right about the wear. But if it were a toe problem, could it cause premature wear on both the inner AND outer edge of the tire at the same time?