TomW

Got that right.. Even if the weather isn't perfect, it just seems so much better on the Harley.

spinlocker

P. J., I had a 2003 Jetta diesel, std, 5spd. Other than the $600 maintenance bill at 80K miles for the timing belt (necessary per factory), that little frugel machine was trouble free. It was my wife's car, she got ill, couldn't mash the clutch (so she got the doc to say ;-/), and I had a Magnum Brain Check and traded it in on a Jag S-Type (which gets 30mpg on the hwy, btw). The Jetta returned 50mpg, all f*n day long. Just spin her up beyond 1800rpm to get on the boost, and things were golden (redline was 4750). Once I drove it down to 42mpg, but that was cruising 80mph with the air on, which it did quite easily I might add. I love my 03 Banks'ed out Cummins, but that Jetta was a sweetheart. Better mileage than my motorcycle! ;-))))

SoTexRattler

Sorry guys, IMHO anything that uses lots of BATTERIES for energy storage is a big periodic repair bill waiting to happen.. I've serviced, installed and replaced many tons of all different kinds of big UPS batteries in my working life.
Anybody that deals with batteries will agree they are the weak point in an energy storage system... Whether it be a golf cart, UPS or a submarine... Lots of maintenance!
Until reliable high voltage strings of batteries can be made to last, or be very CHEAP to replace, I'll lean towards the likes of a relatively simple VW TDI any day over a hybrid!

Remember the KISS principle, cause' Murphy likes hybrids too!

Keith

pmtg

why not nuclear? we wouldnt need insurance because there wouldnt be such a thing as an accident...


just fallout

P.J

I was thinking the same thing. My Mom just got an 06 Civic, 8 yr. warranty on the batteries. Really neat little car too, she has no complaints so far.
As for me (as posted a few weeks ago) We WILL be getting the Jetta. It's just too fun of a car (read diesel power) to pass up.

P.J

oh, one more thing. This is probably some kind of Urban Myth but, a buddy told me he heard that a fireman couldn't get the jaws of life on a hybrid after a rear end collision cause the batteries were shorted to the body!!

Sounds stupid huh? Never know though..............

jrs_dodge_diesel

I think its urban myth. The car design would have that consideration in mind for safety.

NHDiesel

I have a friend who is a tech at a Honda dealer. Although he says the Hybrids are actually decent to drive, he laughs at the people buying them because of the high maintenance costs. He estimates that they average $2000+ a year to maintain. Also, not all dealers are trained to service them, so you might be stuck travelling a long distance to have basic work done.

Jim

HOHN

Uh, would you care to think again before making this statement?

If hybrids don't make any sense, why are they used in train locomotives? I guess those railroad companies are just STUPID, huh?

There are many cases where a hybrid can greatly enhance efficiency. For example, a human body. A person can TRIPLE their efficiency (calories burned per mile travelled) by riding a bike instead of running. In fact, if you could drink gasoline, your human body would get about 900 MPG-- not too bad! Riding the bike is making a "hybrid" of sorts.

parital list of hybrid advantages:

-- Regenerative braking recovers energy normally wasted as heat
-- Being able to optimize an engine for a narrow RPM range is NOT a small thing. The narrower the operating range (in terms of RPM) the lower the BSFC can be. Over seen the BSFC curves for a 12V at 1600rpm vs a 24V at 2000rpm? The 12V is far better. Narrower RPM band is partly the reason.

Disadvantages:
-- More weight, complexity, and cost (generally).


There are some cases where a hybrid won't save you money, and it might not make sense.

But there are also plenty of cases where they make more sense than anything else, and are a very exciting option to have.

Making the generalization that all hybrids are stupid doesn't reflect well on the person making it.

As hybrids are developed more, they will become more reliable and less expensive.


I see no reason why a TDI hybrid couldn't get 70mpg, given some development.

NHDiesel

I can easily see why hybrids don't make sense. Here is an independent source's real-world mileage ratings. I just picked a few examples to compare:
Honda Civic Hybrid: 36 mpg
Volkswagen Golf GLS TDI (manual) 41
Toyota Prius 41

Doesn't exactly look good for the high-maintenance expensive hybrid.

Jim

natstayl

also according to Edmunds, when the batteries do ultimately have to be replaced the cost today is $3000. Price bound to go up in 5 years. and because you can't dump them at the local landfill, you have to pay or trade in the bad batts for a hefty disposal fee. Perhaps that was part of the $3K I don't know.
Nat

Shovelhead

Right now, there's not too many being replaced.
Wait about 5 years from now when the thousands of Hybrids on the road today all start needing replacement batteries at the same time.
Wanna bet that $3000 price will go up?

pmtg

i should open a battery store...

Begle1

The "hybrids" in locomotives are not intended to increase efficiency. Locomotives use electric motors because they take less maintenance and so they can avoid having absolutely giant drivetrain elements. What kind of a tranny would a locomotive require? Thinking about that makes me quiver. They could (theoretically) put more energy to the ground with a direct mechanical driveline, but moving that much mechanical energy just isn't entirely realistic.

The hybrids that folks are putting in cars do work, there's no denying that. They manage to gain more energy through regenerative braking and power-band tuning than through energy conversion. But the entire idea is so incredibly counter-intuitive and anti-common-sense that it is just stupid. Stupid stupid stupid. Just because it happens to work semi-decently doesn't mean that it isn't a stupid idea.

For an example, I have seen many a chimneys made out of wood. Does it work, and does it work more efficiently (for less money) than a chimney made out of brick? Yes. Is it stupid? Yes.

Hybrids, like wooden chimneys, are just never going to prove to be ultimately economical.

And no; automatic transmissions, electronic fuel injection and gasoline engines have not yet proven themselves ultimately economical either.

HOHN

I guess I just don't see the logical connection of wooden chimneys and hybrid cars. I'd ask you to explain it, but I'm even more obtuse than normal, so you'd probably be wasting your time on me.

The locomotive thing makes sense.

I'd like to see the day were a true CVT tranny becomes viable, as I think that would net a nice gain in MPG and overall efficiency. What do you think of CVTs?