Interesting Lift Pump Observation
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From: San Diego
Interesting Lift Pump Observation
I replaced my lift pump with a campaign pump about 6k miles ago. Last week I noticed the fuel pressure dropping to around 8 psi (causing the alarm on my attitude monitor to go off) and it got as low as 4 psi the following day after about 60 miles of driving. I called our Ford rep. to have her order another campaign pump and found out the Cummins dealer would be out of stock until the end of the month. That tells me these pumps arn't much better than the stock ones.
This is where the observation comes in. While laying in bed praying about what do to since I needed my truck, I was reminded about something the "old school" mechanics used to do when they changed fuel filters, they filled them with ATF. I thought some ATF in the fuel might clean and lubricate the pump from the inside. The next morning (Thursday) I dumped two quarts in the tank and believe it or not the fuel pressure came up to 15 psi. Since then I have put a little over 300 miles on the truck (I added one more quart when I got fuel) and the lowest the fuel pressure has dropped to has been 8 psi, and that was for a very brief moment at WOT. No telling how long this will hold out but for now I feel safe driving the truck. I guess its time for an after market pump. I figured I'd share this with the hopes it might help someone make it home with an intact injection pump.
This is where the observation comes in. While laying in bed praying about what do to since I needed my truck, I was reminded about something the "old school" mechanics used to do when they changed fuel filters, they filled them with ATF. I thought some ATF in the fuel might clean and lubricate the pump from the inside. The next morning (Thursday) I dumped two quarts in the tank and believe it or not the fuel pressure came up to 15 psi. Since then I have put a little over 300 miles on the truck (I added one more quart when I got fuel) and the lowest the fuel pressure has dropped to has been 8 psi, and that was for a very brief moment at WOT. No telling how long this will hold out but for now I feel safe driving the truck. I guess its time for an after market pump. I figured I'd share this with the hopes it might help someone make it home with an intact injection pump.
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From: hutchinson MN
the campaign pump that I had on my truck did the same thing, then chistmas morning at 2:30 am it left me stranded wouldn't pump a thing. and the fuel was so cold the injection pump couldn't pump it at any rate over the truck idleing , it was not jelled just thicker than normal. That when I just broke down and bought the walbro kit from wide open Diesel they got the best price on the kit, and they only sell one. kit with the larger of the two walbro pumps. it's worth takeing a look.
As for the ATF Don't put that IN your Fuel Modern injection pumps it will damage them, atf has alot of friction modifyers in it the will hard electronic injection pumps, atf is not ment to be burned. you would be better off running 2 clycle motor oil, I like to run the stuf for boats it's cleaner. Also another note on the ATF It will Dye the Fuel red. if you ever get your tank dipped you will be in for some FUN, hope the info helps.
As for the ATF Don't put that IN your Fuel Modern injection pumps it will damage them, atf has alot of friction modifyers in it the will hard electronic injection pumps, atf is not ment to be burned. you would be better off running 2 clycle motor oil, I like to run the stuf for boats it's cleaner. Also another note on the ATF It will Dye the Fuel red. if you ever get your tank dipped you will be in for some FUN, hope the info helps.
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From: League City, TX
Yep, ATF in the fuel is an old school idea, but shouldn't be used in our engines (or any modern diesel).
True, ATF is not chemically engineered to burn (not its intended purpose). Though, given enough heat it will burn. While it may burn, what might it leave behind in the cylinders, to eventually work its way into the oil?
Some food for thought :
1. ATF (any flavor) is red in color. It also turns your fuel red. It would be hard to explain red fuel if you ever get dipped.
2. ATF also has friction modifiers in it meant for clutch paks in trannies, not in injection pumps with tight tolerances.
3. This kinda falls under "right tool for the right job". There are much better and cheaper additives to put in the tank designed for diesel engines.
And number 4. This is a quote from another forum. The guy that posted this works in the petrochem industry.
True, ATF is not chemically engineered to burn (not its intended purpose). Though, given enough heat it will burn. While it may burn, what might it leave behind in the cylinders, to eventually work its way into the oil?
Some food for thought :
1. ATF (any flavor) is red in color. It also turns your fuel red. It would be hard to explain red fuel if you ever get dipped.
2. ATF also has friction modifiers in it meant for clutch paks in trannies, not in injection pumps with tight tolerances.
3. This kinda falls under "right tool for the right job". There are much better and cheaper additives to put in the tank designed for diesel engines.
And number 4. This is a quote from another forum. The guy that posted this works in the petrochem industry.
Originally Posted by Flash
How about we look at the chemistry that makes up the Ford ATFs. If you are using Mercon V for your additive, it is a generally 20w mineral fluid and sometimes is a PAO basestock with some diesters. Not bad so far. Now comes the additive package with 2200-2500 ppm's sulphur and 600-800 ppm's of zinc. I don't think I would want to purposely run that much sulphur thru my engine as it will end up as sulphuric acid in the oil. And that much zinc run thru the injectors has got to eventually cause some erosion. So, lets look at Fords Type F ATF. It is a 20w mineral fluid with 12,000-13,000 ppm's of phosphorus, 3500 ppm's zinc, and about 800 ppm's barium. I can't believe this wouldn't poison a diesel engine. The acid load on the oil has to be tremendous. I would suggest using an additive that is made to do the job if you are using an additive at all.
How about we look at the chemistry that makes up the Ford ATFs. If you are using Mercon V for your additive, it is a generally 20w mineral fluid and sometimes is a PAO basestock with some diesters. Not bad so far. Now comes the additive package with 2200-2500 ppm's sulphur and 600-800 ppm's of zinc. I don't think I would want to purposely run that much sulphur thru my engine as it will end up as sulphuric acid in the oil. And that much zinc run thru the injectors has got to eventually cause some erosion. So, lets look at Fords Type F ATF. It is a 20w mineral fluid with 12,000-13,000 ppm's of phosphorus, 3500 ppm's zinc, and about 800 ppm's barium. I can't believe this wouldn't poison a diesel engine. The acid load on the oil has to be tremendous. I would suggest using an additive that is made to do the job if you are using an additive at all.
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From: Hill Air Force Base, UT
If you wanted to run a walbro fuel system and didn't want to pay allot for it... Do a search on the cumins forum. There are some guys that are making their own system for about 150 bucks or so.
I agree with the other posters that ATF should be used in slushboxes and not in fuel tanks. I personally run power service at each fill up.
Joe
I agree with the other posters that ATF should be used in slushboxes and not in fuel tanks. I personally run power service at each fill up.
Joe
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From: The Great White North
Yep, ATF in the fuel is an old school idea, but shouldn't be used in our engines (or any modern diesel).
True, ATF is not chemically engineered to burn (not its intended purpose). Though, given enough heat it will burn. While it may burn, what might it leave behind in the cylinders, to eventually work its way into the oil?
Some food for thought :
1. ATF (any flavor) is red in color. It also turns your fuel red. It would be hard to explain red fuel if you ever get dipped.
2. ATF also has friction modifiers in it meant for clutch paks in trannies, not in injection pumps with tight tolerances.
3. This kinda falls under "right tool for the right job". There are much better and cheaper additives to put in the tank designed for diesel engines.
And number 4. This is a quote from another forum. The guy that posted this works in the petrochem industry.
True, ATF is not chemically engineered to burn (not its intended purpose). Though, given enough heat it will burn. While it may burn, what might it leave behind in the cylinders, to eventually work its way into the oil?
Some food for thought :
1. ATF (any flavor) is red in color. It also turns your fuel red. It would be hard to explain red fuel if you ever get dipped.
2. ATF also has friction modifiers in it meant for clutch paks in trannies, not in injection pumps with tight tolerances.
3. This kinda falls under "right tool for the right job". There are much better and cheaper additives to put in the tank designed for diesel engines.
And number 4. This is a quote from another forum. The guy that posted this works in the petrochem industry.
Hard to believe guys are still doing this.
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From: San Diego
Thanks for the advice on the ATF. Thats what I like about this forum, there's alot of sharp people here. I guess I'll check into a Walbro, anyone have a good link for someone around California? Money really isn't the issue, it's more availability.
As for the mechanics I was referring to they were mainly service guys I was around 30 years or so ago when I was running heavy equipment. They really didn't have much to gain by seeing a injection pump fail, as a matter of fact I doubt many of them are still alive. The thing that surprised me the most about the whole thing was how quickly the transfer pump reacted to the lubricant in the fuel and I hope someone might use the information to limp their truck home or make it a few more days when your in a pinch............................................. using a different lubricant of course
. Thanks again for the advice 
.
As for the mechanics I was referring to they were mainly service guys I was around 30 years or so ago when I was running heavy equipment. They really didn't have much to gain by seeing a injection pump fail, as a matter of fact I doubt many of them are still alive. The thing that surprised me the most about the whole thing was how quickly the transfer pump reacted to the lubricant in the fuel and I hope someone might use the information to limp their truck home or make it a few more days when your in a pinch............................................. using a different lubricant of course
. Thanks again for the advice .
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From: The Great White North
Kevin,
Yes, 30 years ago, the ATF probably would have been ok...but both diesel engines and ATF have drastically changed in the last 30+ years. Now adays, they have different additives in ATF, and the tolerances on injector pump parts is way tighter.
If you want the extra lubrication (which is a very good idea with the new ULSD), a fuel additive is the way to go, supplimented by some TCW-3 2 cycle oil, or some non detergent 30 wt engine oil.
Yes, 30 years ago, the ATF probably would have been ok...but both diesel engines and ATF have drastically changed in the last 30+ years. Now adays, they have different additives in ATF, and the tolerances on injector pump parts is way tighter.
If you want the extra lubrication (which is a very good idea with the new ULSD), a fuel additive is the way to go, supplimented by some TCW-3 2 cycle oil, or some non detergent 30 wt engine oil.
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From: The Great White North
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From: Texas
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GSL39...5583QQtcZphoto
This is where I bought my pump. I have heard there are a few vendors selling them for $100 even, but I haven't checked for them. I bought fittings and fuel line from Vulcan Performance to completely upgrade the fuel system. I didn't opt for 1/2 inch lines, based on a thread I read on here showing the Brake Specific Fuel Consumption for my truck even at 500 horsepower should be fed easily by 3/8" lines and still have enough fuel from the Walbro to cool the VP44.
This is where I bought my pump. I have heard there are a few vendors selling them for $100 even, but I haven't checked for them. I bought fittings and fuel line from Vulcan Performance to completely upgrade the fuel system. I didn't opt for 1/2 inch lines, based on a thread I read on here showing the Brake Specific Fuel Consumption for my truck even at 500 horsepower should be fed easily by 3/8" lines and still have enough fuel from the Walbro to cool the VP44.
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From: Texas
If you are looking for a pre-engineered kit, then the Wide Open Diesel or the Glacier Diesel Performance kits (sold through this site's online store) are the way to go. I sourced my own bypass valve and fittings, and have a provision started for increased filtration, but otherwise a kit isn't too bad. I would try to put the bypass valve at the VP44 though, instead of immediately after the pump. Thatway, all the fuel flows to the VP44 before returning to the tank through the bypass line. Gives me piece of mind thatway, instead of the bypass letting fuel return due to a plugging fuel filter, and not enough getting to the VP.
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From: Tampa Florida
Kevin,
Yes, 30 years ago, the ATF probably would have been ok...but both diesel engines and ATF have drastically changed in the last 30+ years. Now adays, they have different additives in ATF, and the tolerances on injector pump parts is way tighter.
If you want the extra lubrication (which is a very good idea with the new ULSD), a fuel additive is the way to go, supplimented by some TCW-3 2 cycle oil, or some non detergent 30 wt engine oil.
Yes, 30 years ago, the ATF probably would have been ok...but both diesel engines and ATF have drastically changed in the last 30+ years. Now adays, they have different additives in ATF, and the tolerances on injector pump parts is way tighter.
If you want the extra lubrication (which is a very good idea with the new ULSD), a fuel additive is the way to go, supplimented by some TCW-3 2 cycle oil, or some non detergent 30 wt engine oil.
Kind of blurs the issue don't you think? We are talking tolerances with respect to viscosity right? If that is the case, diesel and 2-cycle oil are not equal.