Build sheet? Tell me what I need...
10-25-2012, 12:40 PM
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Build sheet? Tell me what I need...
Im getting a built tranny within the next few months. Then after that, Id like to start building a high 12- low 13 second truck to play with at the track.
It will be a work in progress that will be dictated by available funds. I hope to be done with it in approx a years time.
Exactly what do I need to do and in what order will it need to be done to build a quick truck that can still pull a trailer, be extremely reliable, and not break the bank too much?
I know this is a loaded question, but any help would be appreciated. Thanks
It will be a work in progress that will be dictated by available funds. I hope to be done with it in approx a years time.
Exactly what do I need to do and in what order will it need to be done to build a quick truck that can still pull a trailer, be extremely reliable, and not break the bank too much?
I know this is a loaded question, but any help would be appreciated. Thanks
10-25-2012, 06:49 PM
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A 12 second, reliable, towing, cheap to build daily driver is kinda an oxymoron. Your going to have to decide what you are wanting out of the truck. We'd all love a 12 sec truck in the quarter that we'd also tow the toy hauler with and built for $4,000 invested, but your trying to reach the ceiling and the floor at the same time.
After deciding what you want to do, building a parts list has more to do with dollars than parts. What can you afford in each category?
Injectors
Pumps
Studs
Turbos
Programmer/ box
Gauges/ monitor
Other than fuel system
Trans
Suspension/ frame
After deciding what you want to do, building a parts list has more to do with dollars than parts. What can you afford in each category?
Injectors
Pumps
Studs
Turbos
Programmer/ box
Gauges/ monitor
Other than fuel system
Trans
Suspension/ frame
10-26-2012, 08:28 AM
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CLICK, I do understand what youre saying...I probably posed my question the wrong way.
I tow a 5K lb trailer daily from April to November and a 10K trailer monthly....I have been going to the track as a spectator and I would really like to start participating alittle.
After I get the tranny (which is on borrowed time now), Id like to start a build up. Im thinking about starting with head studs and going from there...as I want to do things right for reliability sake.
What Im asking, is what should I do next? what size injectors, what turbo, what should I do to the fuel system? Im just looking for a direction to go. Im not looking to build a full on race rig, just something that will give a Mustang or Camaro a good run. Also to build in more strength for reliability.
I tow a 5K lb trailer daily from April to November and a 10K trailer monthly....I have been going to the track as a spectator and I would really like to start participating alittle.
After I get the tranny (which is on borrowed time now), Id like to start a build up. Im thinking about starting with head studs and going from there...as I want to do things right for reliability sake.
What Im asking, is what should I do next? what size injectors, what turbo, what should I do to the fuel system? Im just looking for a direction to go. Im not looking to build a full on race rig, just something that will give a Mustang or Camaro a good run. Also to build in more strength for reliability.
10-26-2012, 10:37 AM
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If you are towing that much (I'm guessing for work), then you'd put strength and reliability to the top of the list with speed on the bottom. Here is a few thoughts and ideas for a build. Thinking on a budget, it kind of models what I've done, and where I'm going with my truck. I tow nearly every day heavy (7k lbs+). My truck is my personal/ work truck. So reliability is top priority. I'm not a great mechanic or diesel power mastermind, just some of MHO from what I've seen other guys do, and learned on my truck. 
Sounds like the trans is needed first. Any more than a little bit of after market power should get a built trans to stand up over time. For my NV5600, that ment a bigger clutch. A towing trans and race trans are two different animals. So watch what parts are going into it. A race trans might overheat towing, and a tow trans wouldn't shift as hard as a race trans is needed to to make time. Neither would be optimal for a grocery run.
Studs are a good idea and a must over 40-45 psi of boost if your fueling hard. But aren't needed till you're making the top end of the "mild upgrades" scale. Add to the build when needed before you loose the head gasket.
Like mentioned, EFI live is best for big power (and some guys are doing cool stuff with them), but a Smarty S06 Revo is easy to play with. Add a Edge CTS and stack with a MP-8, and you can dashboard control the power. Up for the pesky Ford down the street, down for day to day work/ tow as needed.
There is a other than diesel fuel category that I've dipped into. The Tow Performance is a fun kit to use. 65hp/100fpt on tap used only when the trucks gettin hot and using power. I'll set the cruise control at 65 mph and hit a hill while towing. Watch the boost and EGTs go up and the kit turns on. You can feel the truck pull harder and watch the pump run up in pressure as needed. No added heat. It's a bit of money, but is really fun to play with. Tons more in the sticky thread. Propaine and nitrous is for drag trucks.
For injectors on a work tow truck, I'd stay on the lower end so under 100 hp. Like a DDP 50hp or Flux 1 or 2 (45, and 65hp iirc). Wild (100hp+) need tons of air. Like a big single turbo (not good for towing) or twins (mentioned below). The larger injectors need to be tuned in better with the rest of the build for the truck to run reliably and cool. With more tuning (and air) needed, reliability goes down (JMHO, many guys daily drive on 150hp sticks).
With a programmer, fuel box, and bigger injectors, we have to talk about fuel pumps. If your in tank is good, you might get away with leaving it. But aftermarket pumps can have better filters vs the factory. And will keep fuel pressure up to your CP3. The built CP3s will for sure make good power in with the other mods, but are very spendy. And if we are staying "mild build" and on a budget, a $1,800 pump does not fit in well. You can do an Arson 3 kit that will help get the most out of a "stock" CP3. $400 and do it yourself or have your diesel nut buddy put it in for you (shameless plug for rebal, the guy is the best diesel wrench I know).
A Smarty will boost fool and the HE351 does really good for a stock turbo. But with 50hp sticks, Smarty Revo, MP-8, and Arson 3, your running short of air. You could call it quits with the mods here. Bigger single turbo aren't always the best for towing (vs what the HE351 already does). And twins are spendy. Kits that use the stock HE351 and a bigger bottom are interdasting to me, but will still run you some big money (for a single purchase). But with the above mods and twins, you should be pushing some good power numbers. At this point, you are no longer a "mild build". But it will for sure blow the paint off the Ford that's down the street.
Watching what you motor is doing is a must when towing or making large hp. Making sure everything is running right and not gettin outside of safe or over wearing areas. EGT, boost, trans gauges are a must. You may want to watch the rail pressure to keep from running high numbers all the time. On the dyno or dragging is one thing. But running it too high all the time can over wear the fuel system. Also the lift pump. For the factory pump, it lets you know when your filter is dirty or (like in my case) at least you know that it's still on. I have a line pressure on my W/M so I know when it's running and helps me tune it in. I'm running out of room between the steering wheel and windshield in my truck for gauges. But I like to see what's going on. $2,000 in every gauge you could buy for your truck is expensive. But may keep you from loosing the motor or trans.
For me towing is as much about stopping as starting. And also hauling the weight correctly. Some people completely overlook this line. A PAC brake and lifetime pads/ rotors are a must in my truck. A good electric break controler as well. Rear air bags keep everything level. The correct weight rated hitch and receiver are needed so you don't kill yourself or anyone else.
You have to decide what you want to spend and where your going to stop. Power is fun. But at the same time, we have other financial obligations in life. Draw a line in you build for power and cost. And be happy with your truck. These are great trucks and will make good power. There will always be someone faster than you with the pockets deep enough to fund the speed.
Sorry. That got really wordy. And I'm sure I left you with more questions than answers. But I hope I left at least one idea for you to run with.
Sounds like the trans is needed first. Any more than a little bit of after market power should get a built trans to stand up over time. For my NV5600, that ment a bigger clutch. A towing trans and race trans are two different animals. So watch what parts are going into it. A race trans might overheat towing, and a tow trans wouldn't shift as hard as a race trans is needed to to make time. Neither would be optimal for a grocery run.
Studs are a good idea and a must over 40-45 psi of boost if your fueling hard. But aren't needed till you're making the top end of the "mild upgrades" scale. Add to the build when needed before you loose the head gasket.
Like mentioned, EFI live is best for big power (and some guys are doing cool stuff with them), but a Smarty S06 Revo is easy to play with. Add a Edge CTS and stack with a MP-8, and you can dashboard control the power. Up for the pesky Ford down the street, down for day to day work/ tow as needed.
There is a other than diesel fuel category that I've dipped into. The Tow Performance is a fun kit to use. 65hp/100fpt on tap used only when the trucks gettin hot and using power. I'll set the cruise control at 65 mph and hit a hill while towing. Watch the boost and EGTs go up and the kit turns on. You can feel the truck pull harder and watch the pump run up in pressure as needed. No added heat. It's a bit of money, but is really fun to play with. Tons more in the sticky thread. Propaine and nitrous is for drag trucks.
For injectors on a work tow truck, I'd stay on the lower end so under 100 hp. Like a DDP 50hp or Flux 1 or 2 (45, and 65hp iirc). Wild (100hp+) need tons of air. Like a big single turbo (not good for towing) or twins (mentioned below). The larger injectors need to be tuned in better with the rest of the build for the truck to run reliably and cool. With more tuning (and air) needed, reliability goes down (JMHO, many guys daily drive on 150hp sticks).
With a programmer, fuel box, and bigger injectors, we have to talk about fuel pumps. If your in tank is good, you might get away with leaving it. But aftermarket pumps can have better filters vs the factory. And will keep fuel pressure up to your CP3. The built CP3s will for sure make good power in with the other mods, but are very spendy. And if we are staying "mild build" and on a budget, a $1,800 pump does not fit in well. You can do an Arson 3 kit that will help get the most out of a "stock" CP3. $400 and do it yourself or have your diesel nut buddy put it in for you (shameless plug for rebal, the guy is the best diesel wrench I know).
A Smarty will boost fool and the HE351 does really good for a stock turbo. But with 50hp sticks, Smarty Revo, MP-8, and Arson 3, your running short of air. You could call it quits with the mods here. Bigger single turbo aren't always the best for towing (vs what the HE351 already does). And twins are spendy. Kits that use the stock HE351 and a bigger bottom are interdasting to me, but will still run you some big money (for a single purchase). But with the above mods and twins, you should be pushing some good power numbers. At this point, you are no longer a "mild build". But it will for sure blow the paint off the Ford that's down the street.
Watching what you motor is doing is a must when towing or making large hp. Making sure everything is running right and not gettin outside of safe or over wearing areas. EGT, boost, trans gauges are a must. You may want to watch the rail pressure to keep from running high numbers all the time. On the dyno or dragging is one thing. But running it too high all the time can over wear the fuel system. Also the lift pump. For the factory pump, it lets you know when your filter is dirty or (like in my case) at least you know that it's still on. I have a line pressure on my W/M so I know when it's running and helps me tune it in. I'm running out of room between the steering wheel and windshield in my truck for gauges. But I like to see what's going on. $2,000 in every gauge you could buy for your truck is expensive. But may keep you from loosing the motor or trans.
For me towing is as much about stopping as starting. And also hauling the weight correctly. Some people completely overlook this line. A PAC brake and lifetime pads/ rotors are a must in my truck. A good electric break controler as well. Rear air bags keep everything level. The correct weight rated hitch and receiver are needed so you don't kill yourself or anyone else.
You have to decide what you want to spend and where your going to stop. Power is fun. But at the same time, we have other financial obligations in life. Draw a line in you build for power and cost. And be happy with your truck. These are great trucks and will make good power. There will always be someone faster than you with the pockets deep enough to fund the speed.
Sorry. That got really wordy. And I'm sure I left you with more questions than answers. But I hope I left at least one idea for you to run with.
10-26-2012, 11:29 AM
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Thats pretty much exactly the kind of help I was looking for...gives me a good idea of what direction im gonna go in. Thanks...
I already have full guages and have had a Smarty Jr for many years...it may be time to start looking at EFI live.
I already have full guages and have had a Smarty Jr for many years...it may be time to start looking at EFI live.
10-26-2012, 01:05 PM
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ClickBang,
Very good write-up there!
Extremely well thought out and informative...
Best quote thus far:
"Power is fun. But at the same time, we have other financial obligations in life. Draw a line in you build for power and cost. And be happy with your truck. These are great trucks and will make good power. There will always be someone faster than you with the pockets deep enough to fund the speed."
Again, good post!
Very good write-up there!
Extremely well thought out and informative...
Best quote thus far:
"Power is fun. But at the same time, we have other financial obligations in life. Draw a line in you build for power and cost. And be happy with your truck. These are great trucks and will make good power. There will always be someone faster than you with the pockets deep enough to fund the speed."
Again, good post!
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