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Towing my Arctic Fox 5th wheel

Old Feb 13, 2010 | 06:04 AM
  #16  
Rednax's Avatar
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Joined: Dec 2006
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From: Corpus Christi, Texas
Scale tickets are your best friend, multiple times. I start with any new vehicle and first weigh is me, full fuel and nothing else. Same with trailer (full fresh water and propane, nothing else). Each of these is solo, so that tongue or pin weight calculations come out easily and verifiably. Getting one wheel readings is also good (if scale is such you can run tires outside of axle pads for both sides). Respecting the vehicle manufacturers numbers is not only risk minimization, but longer vehicle life and the avoidance of legal negligence.

There's a good discussion on definitions of GAWR, GCWR, etc on rv.net right now, the "towing" forum. Here's a quote from Ron Gratz on a definition:

". . I see no reason to expect that the combined axle ratings should add up to the GVWR.

The axle ratings are based on how much vertical load the suspension/axle/tire system can carry. I believe most TV manufacturers would tell you the GVWR is based on the TV's braking capacity.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has a legislative mandate under Title 49 of the United States Code, Chapter 301, Motor Vehicle Safety, to issue Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS) and Regulations to which manufacturers of motor vehicle and equipment items must conform and certify compliance.

These Federal safety standards are regulations written in terms of minimum safety performance requirements for motor vehicles or items of motor vehicle equipment. These requirements are specified in such a manner "that the public is protected against unreasonable risk of crashes occurring as a result of the design, construction, or performance of motor vehicles and is also protected against unreasonable risk of death or injury in the event crashes do occur."

The subject of Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) is addressed in great detail in CODE OF FEDERAL REGULATIONS 49 CFR Ch. V (10–1–01 Edition) § 571.135 Standard No. 135; Passenger car brake systems. Discussion of the importance of GVWR begins in "S6.3.1. Vehicle weight" on page 427.

In essence, the vehicle must be able to meet the braking requirements while carrying a load equal to the GVWR.

Similar Standards and Regulations for vehicles with GVWR up to 10,000# can be found in § 571.105 Standard No. 105; Hydraulic and electric brake systems. Discussion of the importance of GVWR begins in "S6.1 Vehicle weight.". This Standard also has separate requirements for vehicles with GVWR greater than 10,000#.

I believe that, in the eyes of the NHTSA, a vehicle's GVWR is very much of a safety consideration and the requirements are spelled out in great detail."


In other words, anyone that tells you that the GAWR is all you have to "worry" about is full of it. GCWR, GVWR and the rest have legal consequence. I might add an exhaust brake to the truck, or disc brakes to the trailer so as to keep performance high when maximum limits are being reached. It does NOT allow me to exceed them.

Some ol' rancher rolling along a side road with a big load of hay is no ones worry. A guy on the Interstate, overloaded, with braking capacity exceeded is a disaster waiting to happen: "gee, Dad, what a great vacation . . . ."

Take your time: acquire readings and measurements (height), establish a permanent record to keep in a zippered notebook or something. Pictures are also good. Once you have a baseline you'll always be glad of the references it provides.

Look at it another way: it's childish to cheat on taxes, speed over the limit, etc, because the "adult" knows better. Justifying it because others do it didn't work on the playground . . . and the law comes down hardest on the little man. The whole point is to arrive safely, without incident. Work the numbers and show good faith.
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Old Feb 13, 2010 | 07:48 AM
  #17  
Scotty's Avatar
Top's Younger Twin
 
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Thanks Don M!
I rolled across one axle at a time. the officer totaled the front and rear of my truck to show how I arrived at the big number over the total allowable for my truck. To be very honest I was surprised and so was he when we discovered that the mega cab had a lower rating and then the missing axle. He reported the labeling issue to Transport Canada and the dealer that was getting this trailer was aware of this because he got two other units delivered two days prior that had the same issue.
The post above me says it all. The officer said he had no doubt that I would be ok but the law states different then what we feel is safe and he has to enforce it. He even said if I was heading east, he would have let me go as I was out of the mountains. Heading west I was going to encounter several long, steep grades of which he said would or could be a problem. I brought this to the attention of others I know that own Rams. A friend of mine has a non dually long bed 3500 4x4 and his rating is 10,100 pounds. He has since ordered a 2010 3500 dually crew. He has a sled deck on the bed with tools under it...adding even a light travel trailer would have him WAY over his limit.
Hopefully folks will see this before they purchase a truck as opposed to after like I did.

Scotty
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Old Feb 15, 2010 | 06:03 PM
  #18  
Busboy's Avatar
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Joined: Aug 2007
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From: On the Farm, Manitoba
Originally Posted by bailer6334
Busboy,
So how do the police know your over weight?
The badge on the door tells it all "2500 turbo diesel" and a larger fiver. Just the size of the fiver accounts for 15-20% pin weight and add in the fact the diesel engine is very heavy leaves the truck with little cargo carrying capacity. They either wave you over the scales or I've seen heavy looking commercial trailers pulled over in Alberta and they are using portable scales. About once a year for a couple of days they set up an inspection on a freeway that runs through the city, they get traffic in both directions. They use an infra red camera to check for over heating brakes bearings and axles. Anything that looks fishy they wave to the fast lane that is closed off, there they have mechanics inspecting and they also have portable scales for weighing.

The truck can pull it and carry it no problem, the problem is the little sticker on the door post that says GVWR 8800lb. I would like to bet that just about every truck box camper on a dodge diesel truck is also over the GVWR be it a 2500 or 3500
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