I bought this new HO cummins Dodge Quad-cab, Dually, 8 ft bed, 3:73 rr axle, 6 speed manual tranny truck, thinking I could haul at least 16 - 17lbs in a 5th wheel trailer. I was at a trailer dealer today and he showed me some Towing spec. book that stated this truck can only haul up to 13,450 lbs in its current set-up. Is this true? The trailer I wish to buy is only a 35 ft 5th wheel, and weighs in at 11,200 lbs dry, before options. Ordering only basic options adds 1,100 lbs, bringing it to a dry weight of 12,300 lbs, leaving me with only 1,100 lbs left for water, propane, and personal belongings... which by the way add up to much more than 1,100 lbs. I am so disappointed. I bought this thing with the understanding it's total GVWR was 26,000 lbs. Take away 7,500 lbs for the truck, and that leaves me with the ability to tow 18,500 lbs. I know you can't swap weights from the truck to the trailer when calculating towing capacities, but please, someone tell me that since the Hitch-pin weight rests in the bed it can actually count as part of the weight of the truck??? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Mark,
Sorry - - you didn't do your homework. The GCWR of the truck with the 4.10 rear end is 23,000. The 3.73 does not give you that rating. Plus, pulling a 15,000 pound trailer, you want a 4.10 rear end anyway. On a six speed, the 4.10 puts you right in the sweet spot on rpms in the 55 to 65 mph range. You have not filled in your profile - - is the truck a dually?

You may also be surprised at what your truck weighs. Mine comes in at over 8200 with hitch, liner, and aux fuel tank filled and the wife with me in the truck. Figuring backward from that, 23000 - 8200 leaves me 14,800 for the total weight of the trailer to remain within specs. My trailer is closer to 16,000 pounds and I have no problems. It would be nice if you could forget about kingpin weight - - doesn't work that way. First, look at the GWR of the truck - - this is the truck ready to roll with everyone, including the dog, in it plus the trailer kingpin weight - - that is an important figure to try and not exceed. Then, consider what the GWR of the trailer is - - don't exceed that. The last thing to look at is what is the total weight of everything if you drove the whole rig on a scale - - that is GCW, or Gross Combined Weight. On my rig, I am inside my GWR of both the truck and trailer - - I do exceed my GCWR.

Ain't this fun????
Bob

 

Oh sure... this is about as fun as removing my own hemorhoids.

Thanks for the reply though. Yes, the truck is a dually, 8 ft bed.

What is King Pin weight... is that just another term for Hitch-pin weight? And what is Pay-load... is that the amount the bed can carry? Good God, man... I think I'm gonna lose it !!!!!!

 

If you have a hitch already in the truck then I suggest you take a trailer out for a test drive and see first hand what your unit will do with the trailer that you want. It might do what you want if you give it a chance.

 

Yeah looks like you didn't read the fine print prior to buying. This is typical of the average person buying a truck with the intention of hauling somthing. Your truck will pull the load but it will be over weight by Specs and that can cause you a major heartache if you get into an accident or you run into The Man with the scales and he catches you. What is worst is by being over weight you might not be able to control the load properly, that is stopping.
Others may be afraid to tell you but you either need to get another truck or look for another 5VR that does not weigh as much.

 

Gross combined weight is 26K, not gross vehicle weight. That is truck + trailer.

Just get a good brake controller.

The dually is way under-rated.

 

King pin weight is hitch pin weight. Payload is how much weight the truck is carrying in the bed, yes.

When you are pulling a 5er, you care about GCW.

Your truck is about 8,000 or more. Leaves you 18,000 for a 5er.

 

Nice to see an RV dealer telling you this. Not common, I gather.

IMO, you have two worries:

- You'll be annoyed that you didn't get the 4.11 when you have to downshift a lot on hilly terrain.

- The theoretical worry that being over your numbers will loose you your pants in a post-accident law suit (search the forum threads on this subject and make up your own mind - it's like religion or politics).

Law enforcement/scales only worry about axle ratings. This shouldn't be an issue. Get a good brake controller (search the forums, you get what you pay for, etc.) and an exhaust brake.

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa guys. The GCWR on this truck is not 26,000. The GCWR on a 4.10 axle HO is 23,000. The 3.73 is less - - don't have the figure but it is something like 21,000.

GWR (Gross weight rating) is the maximum amount of weight your truck is rated at to include the weight of the truck, you, full fuel, hitch, tools, the wife, the dogs, everything that is in, on, under, in-between the truck PLUS the weight that is added in the bed whether that be a bunch of bags of concrete or putting the "PIN WEIGHT" (how heavy the front of the fifth wheel is when hitched up) of the fiver. A 3500 quad dually is rated to carry 4460. That 4460 assumes nothing added to the base weight of a stripped truck other than one passenger and full fuel tank. So, everything else that is added must be subtracted from that figure. Let's say the wife (careful here talking about the wife's weight) plus the hitch, plus some tools, plus a bed liner plus the dog weigh in at 460 pounds. That leaves you 4000 pounds for hitch weight, which would be one very heavy fiver. My fiver is about 16,000 loaded for the road and has a pin weight of about 3500 when loaded. My goal is to not exceed the GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating) of the truck.

The HO quad with 4.10 is rated to pull a 16,300 fiver. However, every pound of weight you add to the truck takes away from your towing rating and I covered what those things are in the above paragraph. The tow rating for the 3.73 is 13,450. You find the 4.10 when pulling that much weight is much better suited for the job. You will not be keeping the rpms high enough at lower speeds without downshifting and pulling grades will be tougher.

Get a Jordan brake controller - - don't listen to Scotty and Casey when they talk about the BrakeDumb controller. Just teasin'.

Bob

 

change your gears to 4.10's and hope nobody notices that you are overweight. The dually will handle the load without a problem, but they just dont rate your truck like that because of the gears.

 

Although it's been alluded to, no one has come out and said that the manufacturer's trailer tow ratings (MTTR) are next to worthless, so I'll say it. Here's why:

1. The MTTR is calculated as the truck's GCWR minus the curb weight of a base truck (no options or accessories) with only a 150 lb driver. Since the truck curb weight is unrealistically low, this produces a MTTR that's unrealistically high.

2. The MTTR totally ignores the truck's GVWR and the amount of weight the trailer will place on the truck. That's why you'll see a 2500 or 3500 SRW (lighter truck) with a higher MTTR than a heavier 3500 DRW (dually). The worth of the dually (aside from stability, etc.) is in its higher GVWR as I'll show below.

If one wants to stay within the truck's GVWR and GCWR ratings, one should take the actual truck to the scales with full fuel tank(s), accessories (5th wheel hitch), passengers, cargo, etc. just like the truck will be configured when pulling the trailer on the road. Let's call this actual scale weight the laden curb weight (LCW) of the truck. Armed with this information as well as the truck's GCWR and GVWR:

Truck GCWR minus truck LCW = maximum allowable total weight of loaded trailer

Truck GVWR minus truck LCW = maximum allowable pin/hitch weight of loaded trailer

If you don't know the actual loaded trailer weights, a conservative approach is to use the trailer's GVWR as the total weight of the loaded trailer and 20% of the trailer's GVWR (5th wheel) or 12% of the trailer's GVWR (conventional or "bumper pull") as the pin/hitch weight.

Having said all the above, I'm pulling a "Momma HAD to have it!" 16,000 lb GVWR 5th wheel (see signature), and the truck with the mods shown handles it just fine mechanically. I hope and pray that I don't have to test out the legal (civil) side of this discussion, though.

Rusty

 

my father in law tows a 40' 5er with a 1st gen 1992 drw o/d auto bone stock no mods exept a HD trans cooler with electric fans under the bed and tips the scales at 24,0450 GVW and is a full time RVer. bought this truck new and has had zero problems ever. exept a injector pump recall years ago