etn550

[ LEOs outside your state can not enforce weight registration requirements outside their state, so if the tags are not expired your actual weight is moot.

[/QUOTE]

Not entirely true. A few years ago LEO in PA went through motel parking lots and wrote up every rig that was not registered to PA requirements which is that the tow vehicle must plate the full weight of the combination. This was at a national street rod event and many many out of state rigs were written up. The PA court upheld the LEO tickets. Many states do not require similar registration technique. At the time PA stated "no reciprocity". In Ohio, where I lived at the time, a trailer could be plated up to 4klbs separately. Over that was commercial. In Tennesse no plates are required for boat trailers. Campers have their own plate and the rest use permanant lifetime ($75.00) semi plates but must plate the tow vehicle for the full gross.

GAmes

Not entirely true. A few years ago LEO in PA went through motel parking lots and wrote up every rig that was not registered to PA requirements which is that the tow vehicle must plate the full weight of the combination. This was at a national street rod event and many many out of state rigs were written up. The PA court upheld the LEO tickets. Many states do not require similar registration technique. At the time PA stated "no reciprocity". In Ohio, where I lived at the time, a trailer could be plated up to 4klbs separately. Over that was commercial. In Tennesse no plates are required for boat trailers. Campers have their own plate and the rest use permanant lifetime ($75.00) semi plates but must plate the tow vehicle for the full gross.[/QUOTE]

Sounds like a great piece of urban legend. How did the LEOs determine how much the out of state tow vehicles were registered for? How did they compensate for the fact that some register by vehicle weight and some register for combination weight? How about the states that register as passenger vehicles? I've been through PA dozens of times, and crossed their scales. I call B.S.

The rest of your post just illustrates what I said, all states set their own requirements for registering non-commercial vehicles.

etn550

Sounds like a great piece of urban legend. How did the LEOs determine how much the out of state tow vehicles were registered for? How did they compensate for the fact that some register by vehicle weight and some register for combination weight? How about the states that register as passenger vehicles? I've been through PA dozens of times, and crossed their scales. I call B.S.

The rest of your post just illustrates what I said, all states set their own requirements for registering non-commercial vehicles.[/QUOTE]

It was an article in a rod magazine, Car Craft or Hod Rod maybe, written by editors with pictures. LEOs used portable scales right in the motel parking lots. I think it was Hershey, PA, not sure. The community was in an uproar because of the revenue brought in by the event and distaste left with the participants. LEO was asked to leave private motel properties where the vehicles were parked but did not. Maybe others here remember it. Like I stated above, at that "event" if the tow vehicle was not plated for the full combined weight they were written up. They did not care about the trailer plating. It was pretty much all non comercial tow vehicles, out of state that were fined.

Having said all of that, I too have towed many many times through PA on the turnpikes and interstates with the "improper" but legal in Ohio registrations and was never stopped. Thankfully I don't go up there much more. Their roads seemed poor condition and always under repair.

It is true, though that the laws are different in different states.

Haulin_in_Dixie

A 15k fifth wheel is not a big load for a 2500 or 3500 dodge diesel. That is only 22k or 23k gross. I have safely hauled over 30k gross for several hundred thousand with a 2500. Make sure your tires are rated enough. With camper springs you can carry 5000 hitch weight on the rear, of course less without them.

Haulin_in_Dixie

The rear axle ratio matters not except for getting started, makes no difference climbing a hill, you just use a lower trans gear if necessary.

Rednax

". . So no, the law does not recognize vehicle manufacturer limits and yes, they are from thin air."

Doesn't matter what others do. That excuse went out in kindergarten. That others report "success" also does not render failure any less valid, and I've seen the bent frames and wrecks a few times -- up close -- from "overloaded".

Axle rating is from thin air? Tire ratings from thin air?

Dodge states "do not exceed"? It's the guideline you have, as an RV'er.

What if my new tires blow with less than rated weight? Who's liable? Was it Ford or Firestone in re the Explorer? Why?

There's a point of failure inherent.

I'll grant you credit for trying. I've read it all before, as well. The post is nicely done. (Sorta like reading Harv Barlow on TDR). But it's beside the point.

There's a guy -- the OP -- looking for advice. The place to start and end is with numbers.
What the manufacturer states is at present the only guideline you or any of us have.

And, yes, there are grey areas the law hasn't gotten around to. Whether it does or not still doesn't remove personal responsibility. Prudence. That is what is meant by law. Established precedent. Known as negligence. State and Federal law both provide for it.

I've watched Texas DPS go after contractors plenty of times with overloaded trailers. RV'ers are exempt, somewhat, from penalty. Somewhat.

The question is: Can one stand up in court and face the bereaved with a clear conscience in the event of a fatal accident? That's the guideline I've worked from as a CDL driver from the start. Overload, overdimensional, haz-mat, paperwork out the ying-yang . . there's still a big difference between a "who cares" attitude and one that covers the bases when it comes to details before setting out. It won't matter if being overweight is only a secondary or tertiary cause. Even if someone else caused the whole thing. Blame will be apportioned. Details matter greatly.

There's a day, there's always a day when it all goes wrong. Bet on it. Plan for the worst.

For what it's worth I don't happen to think that factory towing guidelines or how to set hitch rigging is good. It's a start. And that the so-called "new" J2807 standard doesn't take into account either most vehicles or how it should be done either. It's all a cover for manufacturer liability, not how to set hitch rigging properly. That these trucks (and most cars) can tow a lot more than they're rated for is the crux of the problem.

And, so what, since it's just my opinion. My opinion has no weight in court as an expert. I'm not one and neither are you.

If the OP wants to exceed the ratings, it's on him. But to say that it is okay, that the ratings have no meaning is a falsehood. Advising him to work the numbers is just basic homework: cheap, reliable and responsible.

.

Haulin_in_Dixie

Possibly some have a little more experience with truck design than you do, maybe? A pickup truck has ratings by the manufacturer that relate to a ¾ or one-ton pickup truck with a bumper itch called tag along. They do not give semi specs for towing. When a ¾ ton as a designated capacity of 8800 pounds gross it is based on several things. First to the manufacturer is the rating has to reflect the taxing and insurance requirements for a ¾ ton truck. This is basic. It comes with certain tires and the load capacity is carried on the truck, not behind it. This truck has to be warranted to carry this weight with the stock tires with no sway or bad handling and the power train is speced to give a good warranty pulling this weight.

Now semi design is different. When you PROPERLY install a gooseneck or fifth wheel hitch this all changes and you have modified the truck to a different basic type. By accepted design a four axle semi, that is one drive axle and two trailer axles, it is supposed to carry up to 10% on the steering, the remainder of 25% on the drive axle and the remainder on the trailer axles. A full semi is 50/50. In practice each axle is supposed to have braking capacity to stop its load rating so brakes properly set up are not an issue if the trailer has the proper brakes. When properly set up this way and the ratings of the ties and axles are not exceeded it will handle well,

A small proof of this is that a second gen ¾ ton is rated for 8800 pounds but a dual tired truck of exactly the same build is rated much higher. The only difference in the trucks is a slightly larger inner axle bearing and dual tires. The average tire on these trucks is rated for around 2700 pounds but it is real easy to install tires of the 3750 range and dramatically improve the capacity of the truck.

Until recent years a big truck tractor was purchased as a truck, not a tractor. It was then converted to a semi and all new ratings were applied and actually still can be on your dodge if you really desire. As I stated before I safely carried 5000 pounds on the drive axle and grossed 30 or so regularly and this is with a 2500 with no 411 gears, just stock as Dodge built it. Yeah I added power and “stuff” but the truck did well and never had an accident doing this. I had many dot checks and scaled regularly. The only comments were raised eyebrows when they saw the 8800-pound rating, but no tickets, write-ups or harassment because of it. I later converted to duals but same truck.

California is different and will give you trouble and the new laws in Florida are tougher, but change from a gooseneck to a fifth wheel and you are ok there. That is as long as you get an over length permit or pull the pickup body. Years ago there were a bunch of pictures of what I was running, sixty five feet long and three custom Southern Comfort vans all over the country.

Rednecktastic

Yeah just reading through but I agree with this in some degree.


I'd create a spreadsheet to determine the answer.