Grampaw

I am going to have to get the &quot;flip fix&quot; for my 32' 5er. I need to raise it up for my truck. Someone here said that an RV dealer could flip the axels for me. Question is, can anyone tell me about how many $$$$$$$ am I going to be looking at? Is it going to scare me to death? ??? [undecided] :'( :'(<br><br>Thanks<br>Grampaw

Lary Ellis (Top)

You might want to research that a bit before doing it. I read somewhere a guy who works in the industry has been noting failure in the axles that are flipped. According to him, they are not designed to take the stress in that manner, and he is seeing cracks and failures of the units.<br><br> Sorry I can't recall where I saw that, it could be here so maybe a search would be in order for it.<br><br> I have no personal experience with the &quot;flip&quot; thing myself, only passing on what I read.<br><br>Lary

wheezer

I had it done to a 21' fifth that I had for around $200 at a local hitch and welding shop. Like TOP said, I'd leave that as a last resort. Mine was a light trailer. I didn't have any problems, even dragging a 5k lb boat trailer behind it. The heavier trailer may be a problem though. Try a taller &quot;equalizer&quot;. It's the thing between the springs on the trailer. You can make up about 2&quot; there. I tried that first. It was about $30 and some WD-40 and some elbow grease, not too hard. If you are going to flip the axle, try a hitch shop. It may save you a few bucks.

P Kennedy

Grampa I have done this on my trailer for the same reason and I will help dispell the myths. First of all the axle tubes are consistant in diameter 360 degrees making the strength the same uniformly. Secondly the pads when added to the opposite side of the axle will be positioned exactly 180 degrees from the first set and width thereby not adding/decreasing any amount of stress on the tube. The camber will stay the same and alignment is the same as the spring center bolt fits in the same hole position only on the opposite side of the axle. Center of gravity of the trailer will be increased by a few inches but as most of your load added to the trailer is under the floor and 24&quot; above it (water,food,tools,etc) you will not notice any difference when cornering. The cost should be about $200 US and take a shop 2.5-4 hours labor. The parts list is 4 new spring pads (10-15$) and they need to be welded, other than that labor is all that is needed with the slim exception of a couple of pieces of wire as they may be a little short. If this is the case make sure the people doing the work seal the joints properly otherwise the line voltage will drop in time from corrosion= decreased braking. There is a possibility that if the unit is older or subjected to high humidity/corrosion they might have to cut the u bolts and use new ones (6-10$ each) but request that they use anti-sieze compound on all bolts removed/installed in case they need to be worked on in the future. <br> Top I will disagree with the guy who said this causes cracking as the stress put on an axle by hauling a leaf sprung trailer unlevel with our trucks would be way beyond the stress of 2 level axles. In another thread I read where commercial trailer haulers don't feel that travalling unlevel caues any harm, I will also disagree as when the equalizer goes out of its funtional radius and bottoms the rear axle (usually) is carrying the load and the bearings, axle stubs, brakes, springs take all the weight and road vibration/shock. This would be when bent axles/stubs and broken welds will start to show up without any regards to spring position on the axle (top/bottom). If axle tubes are cracking including the stub welds there is usually abuse to be blamed for it. As a side note most RV trailers are now coming from the factory with spring pads top and bottom to accomadate the difference in height of 4x4vs2x4 trucks. Drop axles like on car/horse/stock trailers are more prone to bending and cracking than straight axles due to the configuration. PK

DPG

On my 31' fiver, it cost $231.00, parts and labor. That was two years ago. Have had absolutely no problems.

Grampaw

[quote author=DPG link=board=11;threadid=13487;start=0#127045 date=1050086170]<br>On my 31' fiver, it cost $231.00, parts and labor. That was two years ago. Have had absolutely no problems.<br>[/quote]<br>DPG,<br>Did you get yours done at a RV place or elsewhere?<br>Grampaw

P Kennedy

Grampaw, I could not get my trailer to a shop on their schedule so I cleaned a bay in the shop and did it myself. I am a little leary about some RV shops doing mechanical unless they have a Automotive mechanic. Spring places are set up for this job and stock the parts. You are too far away to help directly. Somebody suggested just changing the equalizer height this changes the axle cambers opposite each other, they should be the same don't do this, it makes the caster angles different too. PK

wheezer

P Kennedy, I was just trying to say that you may not need to gain all of the clearance of flipping the axles. The RV dealer I had bought mine pretty much said there was no problem not having it level, but said he would only lift it if there was an issue of tail dragging. I did notice that when I raised the trailer, it was affected by crosswind more than it was before.

P Kennedy

Sorry wheezer you and I were replying same time, when a trailer suspension is engineered the spring eyes should be at approximately the same height as for the previous mentioned reasons. I don't go by what an RV dealer thinks is OK but buy the engineers drawings and all that is related - ie; spring rates,axle rates, travel limits and alignments which helps tire wear, spring wear and drag from the running gear. Yes I agree that the slightly higher stance of the trailer will catch more crosswind resistance but mine only sits at 10'6&quot; from 10'1&quot; so a 12' high trailer already has more resistance. I used to pull 13'6&quot; vans that were much harder to control so one must know when it is time to put your face into the wind and have a snooze.PK

GrandpasRam

Grampaw, just like PK I had my axles flipped on my 28' 5er. I had read the same threads a month ago that Top read, so when I went in last Sunday to get the hitch rails put into the new truck, I took time to talk to the installer about the axle flip question. He informed me that towing in an unlevel condition does indeed put unbalanced stress on the rear axle and THAT will cause tire blowouts at best, spring failures and so forth at worst. He took the time to show me what is done (was done to mine) to &quot;flip&quot; the axles; all they do is like PK said - put the springs on top of the axles instead of under them, nothing changes with the axles itself for alignment, camber, spacing, or anything else. He said he has never seen or heard of axle flipping as described by PK ever causing structural problems, and he's been at it for 19 years. It will raise the center of gravity some as PK mentioned, and the biggest affect is on roads with ruts or heaves making the trailer tilt some. This affect makes me a bit uncomfortable, but not as much as having unbalanced load and tire failures. Most big rigs that topple over are caused by load shift (from balanced to unbalanced) during hard cornering, but make the load balanced and secure, then take your turns and corners at a reasonable speed and you should have no problems. Just my 2 cents worth.

Lary Ellis (Top)

I concur with PK on the how important the trailer being level is. <br><br> I have a boat trailer that is 35ft long dual axel. My hitch recever height was not correct causing the trailer to be lower in the front. This put more weight on the front tires, and I blew out a couple before I got an adjustable hitch.<br><br> I have not had a tire fail since I got the thing set to the right height. It was not that extreme a difference, but on hot pavement it really made a difference on the tires.

P Kennedy

The upward bow is to keep the wheels running straight (camber) when loaded, and that is why the springs and axles need to be properly levelled. When the camber is changed by moving off level the wheels will toe in or out depending leaning the axle forward/backward, that is why they do not suggest just lifting the equalizer end of the springs. In this scenario the 2 axles will be working against each other and tow like a sled on cement. PK

KATOOM

I have talked to some very reputable shops (been in the business for 25+ years) and they say that flipping the axles should be a last resort because of the extra heighth on the axles leads to unpredicted rolling of trailers, which I will agree that you must be acountable for the situation you put yourself in. BUT most important of all it puts undo stress on the spring shackles or mounts (not the axle tubes) that can cause them to crack or break off the frame on the increased side load. This is the same reason it is illegal to put blocks on the front axle of a truck for lifting. When you give the axle the advantage in leverage then bad things are going to happen.<br>

P Kennedy

Katoom, Hence therefore the manufacturer of the axles supplying with both sets of spring pads are in contravention of their own engineers and the RV manufacturers are following their lead. Or the RV manufacturers are using way under rated axles and all highboy designed tag along and gooseneck trailers are extremely prone to the aforementioned cracking and the DOT turns a blind eye when certifying. As a point of interest the utility trailer market uses the same axles as per rating in both positions and can legally load to max weight at 13'6&quot; while being certified by DOT per Safety Regulations. These fellows may have been in business for 25+ years but I think some details of axle failure have been left out purposely. Interestingly enough the highest number of axle failures around here are stock trailers which have low centers of gravity and axles are mounted on top of springs as per the norm on RV's. Reason for failure is overloading, turning extremely tight putting excessive side pressure on the wheels,bearings,axle stubs and excessive speed over rough to extremely rough terrain= abuse. Coincidentally farm equipment is not required to have yearly inspections like oilfield hotshots or cross scales! Me thinks some of these myths are scare tactics to encourage trailer sales to match your new trucks. We have seen the odd one crack on the tube at the u-bolt where it was loose over a lot of time and wore through from vibration= abuse. Another thing not given too much concideration is the fact that people using RV's on rough terrain are usually loaded to MAX weight of running gear and when the suspension bottoms there is a point where 2 wheels are supporting all the weight of the maxxed out trailer-ie crossing a ditch. If done carefully there is not usually a problem however if it was to rain one might get rammy and take a run at it resulting in damage. Again position of the springs on the axle would be irrelevant. Those using Torqeflex axles have discovered that they can travel across unlevel terrain easier because of the independant action but noted frame stresses are showing up in certain cases aforementioned. As far as riser blocks in the steering axle of trucks I will agree as this creates a fulcrum for torque when hitting pot holes and severe deviations in terrain. When I used to build Kenworth trucks the engineers would limit us to the block height size before forcing us to use torque rod re-enforced front suspensions for this reason. Factory Dodges,Fords and Chevy's all use riser blocks in the rear to level the truck for drivability under Max load while trying to maintain a level truck. If and when your trailer should lift on one side in a corner no matter what spring orientation, &quot;you&quot; are over driving the equipment and your right it could and some do rollover. This information is not to argue with anybody but to initiate common sense problem analysis and investigating based on reality and facts. If any body feels uncomfortable changing a stock setting on any piece of equipment without thoroughly understanding investigative findings &quot;DON&quot;T DO IT&quot;. PK

PistolWhipt

I did this swap on a buddy's trailer about a month ago. We welded new pads 180 degrees on the other side of the axel tube. We looked at it mounted on both the top and bottom of the leaf springs just to see the difference. It looked like we put a 6&quot; lift on the trailer . <br><br> Once we remounted the axels above the springs, it looks and rides great. Care needs to be taken in respect to welding temperature (that is where the brittleness would come into play). Also pay special attention to the center to center distance of the wheels to make sure the two axels are aligned with each other.<br><br>PISTOL