Another 'Legal weight' Question
04-18-2007, 01:37 PM
#61
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Ahhhh boy. Lets try and keep it simple. No law says that you have to have commercial insurance, that is a designation by the insurance company. The law specificies how much insurance you have to have. If that is 750,000 for a vehicle over 26,001 pounds than that is the amount that you have to have. Call it what you want. If you are not insured for the amount that the law requires, that is a major fine. So if you are determined that you are private, get a company to issue the correct amount in private insurance.
Other states are require by federal agreement to accept your vehicle if you are legally tagged and insured in your home state. If you are not tagged to comply with the laws in Florida, you are inviolation of the laws of the state you are in. They really do not care if you understand it or not. That is for private use. If commercial or designated as such by any state, you have to have tags for THAT state. This is done with apportioned tags. So if commercial you must be properly tagged for that state that you are in.
Weather you feel that it is fair or just is not a question. Generally you will just get a ticket, but in the end you will have to comply with the laws in each state that you drive the vehicle in. If caught you will get a permit to leave the state.
Something tells me that you either have been or someone that is in lease operation is feeding you information. If you are leased to a company to pull their freight with your truck, their insurance only covers you while you are under dispatch. In that case you purchase a policy called "Bobtail and Deadhead" insurance to cover you while you are driving and not under their dispatch. I am not leased but carry my own authority. I assure you, my commercial insurance covers me while under load, or on the way to Waffle House to see a freindly waitress. Many times I use the truck for personal use. Including using it to visit my family in Missouri because it doubles as an RV and my parrot is comfortable and warm in the truck while it is plugged in whiile there. And bobtail it gets better mileage than the next door neighbors RV.
Somehow you have the basics mixed up and are just saying "they can't do that to me" I assure you that they can. An RV has an exemption if it fits under certain specs. But a truck is a truck if it is over a certain weight. You my friend are driving a truck and must comply with the law relating to trucks. It matters not if you are using it to make money or to visit Grandma. If you find that too expensive to plate and insure it, and you cannot get it designated as an RV, then you need to figure on a different combination of vehicles. Why do you think duallies are so popular?
If you are over 26,001 you must have a CDL to drive out of Florida, if not within. If you are over the weight that Florida considers commercial, then you must have the federal minimum of insurance and comply with tags for each state that you drive in. You said, why would they care, because they want your registration fees and compliance with their laws.
Years ago, Alabama had P plates for private use, and X tags for commercial use. They dropped the P tags years ago. If the vehicle will not use passenger tags then it gets commercial tags. X2 tags are for up to 26.000 pounds. X3 tags are for 33,000 and X4 are up to 42,000. This allows the truck to be driven in Alabama. To go to another state I have to have apportioned tags to pay the tag fees in that state. Florida will have a plan much the same. If you are plated for Florida then Alabama will ticket you for unregistered vehicle unless you have apportioned tags, plan on it.
Other states are require by federal agreement to accept your vehicle if you are legally tagged and insured in your home state. If you are not tagged to comply with the laws in Florida, you are inviolation of the laws of the state you are in. They really do not care if you understand it or not. That is for private use. If commercial or designated as such by any state, you have to have tags for THAT state. This is done with apportioned tags. So if commercial you must be properly tagged for that state that you are in.
Weather you feel that it is fair or just is not a question. Generally you will just get a ticket, but in the end you will have to comply with the laws in each state that you drive the vehicle in. If caught you will get a permit to leave the state.
Something tells me that you either have been or someone that is in lease operation is feeding you information. If you are leased to a company to pull their freight with your truck, their insurance only covers you while you are under dispatch. In that case you purchase a policy called "Bobtail and Deadhead" insurance to cover you while you are driving and not under their dispatch. I am not leased but carry my own authority. I assure you, my commercial insurance covers me while under load, or on the way to Waffle House to see a freindly waitress. Many times I use the truck for personal use. Including using it to visit my family in Missouri because it doubles as an RV and my parrot is comfortable and warm in the truck while it is plugged in whiile there. And bobtail it gets better mileage than the next door neighbors RV.
Somehow you have the basics mixed up and are just saying "they can't do that to me" I assure you that they can. An RV has an exemption if it fits under certain specs. But a truck is a truck if it is over a certain weight. You my friend are driving a truck and must comply with the law relating to trucks. It matters not if you are using it to make money or to visit Grandma. If you find that too expensive to plate and insure it, and you cannot get it designated as an RV, then you need to figure on a different combination of vehicles. Why do you think duallies are so popular?
If you are over 26,001 you must have a CDL to drive out of Florida, if not within. If you are over the weight that Florida considers commercial, then you must have the federal minimum of insurance and comply with tags for each state that you drive in. You said, why would they care, because they want your registration fees and compliance with their laws.
Years ago, Alabama had P plates for private use, and X tags for commercial use. They dropped the P tags years ago. If the vehicle will not use passenger tags then it gets commercial tags. X2 tags are for up to 26.000 pounds. X3 tags are for 33,000 and X4 are up to 42,000. This allows the truck to be driven in Alabama. To go to another state I have to have apportioned tags to pay the tag fees in that state. Florida will have a plan much the same. If you are plated for Florida then Alabama will ticket you for unregistered vehicle unless you have apportioned tags, plan on it.
04-18-2007, 01:54 PM
#62
Registered User
There are different catagories of laws here that are being confused.
CDL has its own laws, over 26,000 you have to have one.
IFTA pays the fuel taxes for the different states, commercial or non commercial.
Apportioned Tags pays the taxes for the tags in the state you are in.
Authority is the permission to operate as a commercial entity in a particular state or federal for multi state use. No authority for private use.
Insurance is just insurance, the law states how much you have to have and where it is effective.
Logs and the compliance thereof, has its own set of circumstances.
There are different laws that govern each of these different catagories. CDL laws have nothing to do with tag laws, nor fuel tax laws.
CDL has its own laws, over 26,000 you have to have one.
IFTA pays the fuel taxes for the different states, commercial or non commercial.
Apportioned Tags pays the taxes for the tags in the state you are in.
Authority is the permission to operate as a commercial entity in a particular state or federal for multi state use. No authority for private use.
Insurance is just insurance, the law states how much you have to have and where it is effective.
Logs and the compliance thereof, has its own set of circumstances.
There are different laws that govern each of these different catagories. CDL laws have nothing to do with tag laws, nor fuel tax laws.
04-18-2007, 08:19 PM
#63
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Haulin:
Florida Chapter 320 cleary states that if you declare a weight (when tagging a truck in excess of 26,000# which requires you to combine the GVW of the truck, trailer and load) of greater than 26,000# "you must have COMMERCIAL INSURANCE". It makes no mention of limits. It says "commercial insurance". Define it however you want, but that is the wording from that chapter, which deals with licensing of motor vehicles. Insurance deals with USE - that is why there is the difference between private policies ("pleasure use"), and business use. Perhaps higher limits are required for commercial as you say, however, the terms "low limit" or "higher limit" I have never heard - but I sure have heard "commercial insurance", and Florida uses THAT term in THEIR Chapter 320. I contacted several insurance agents, including one who has the COMMERCIAL AUTO POLICY for our business vehicles. I simply share what they say.
I am not being "fed" information by anyone. I have not (in years) driven commercially - never leased. I only share what I have learned in coversation with insurance agents here, with the State DMV staff attorney, and with the Floirda Dept of Insurance. My "use" is private", which means by its nature, my exposure should be less, because my miles driven are lower than anyone using a vehicle in commerce, day in, day out. I drive less than 10,000 annual miles with a trailer connected.
I am required to have a Class A CDL because, under the driver's license requirements of Florida, due to weight class, it's the law, even for "private" use.
The Federal statutes have a clear definition for "in commerce" and "furtherence of a business enterprise", as it realtes to THEIR definition of commercial, hence when THEIR regulations have to be followed. The State of Florida in Chapter 316 (Uniform Traffic Code), uses this definition, however in the vehicle license section, they simply define a commercial vehicle by WEIGHT, with no exception for USE (except the usual RV exception).
Since I can't declare a weight over 26,000 for tagging, because I do not have (NOR SHOULD I BE REQUIRED TO HAVE) a "commercial policy", I am under-tagged. Still no one has told me why any State other than Florida should care about my TAGGED weight (meaning "I paid the tax weight"), so long as my vehicle and load, in combination, is:
(1) insured
(2) tagged
(3) has no euipment defects
(4) is within its GVW, axle & tire ratings
The last two, (3)(4), deal with safety, and I can see why that is a concern to everyone. I should be properly licensed, but why does, as an example, the State of Wyoming care if I paid the State of Florida the extra $$$ for a higher GVW declared rating, since my use is not commercial, and my set up, when loaded with my OWN load, keeps everything UNDER ratings ?
If my vehicles are owned by me, and the load is owned by me and not offered for sale, my use is "private, not commercial". Not commercial means just that, so if a scale sign says "all COMMERCIAL vehicles must enter scales" - I don't. Why should I ? I don't see other large private vehicles doing so.
The RV exception is an issue: you can buy a bus with air brakes that weighs 30,000# and you are "excepted" from regulations, and of course have no requirement to scale.
Florida allows you to declare weight when tagging, but they don't allow you to declare USE. If I were in business, of course I'd abide by all State and Federal regulations, and have commercial insurance w/required ratings - it's not only the law, it is a level playing field for others in the like business. But as I am not, I am NOT required (and have been so advised by Florida DOT) to have DOT#, or follow any other commercial vehicle regulation. I may cross a scale as a courtesy so as not to be chased down, as I know the appearence of my rig may "look" commercial - but I have signage to the contrary, and the Florida DOT handbook required "actual proof of furtherence of a commercial enterprise, not mere suspicion" to enforce commercial regulations.Buses look like buses, but some are RV's. Florida does not allow you to change the definition from a "heavy truck" to an RV, UNLESS THE VEHICLE HAS A FIFTH WHEEL. So, if you have a gooseneck connection (which apparently Florida does not know exists...), you cannot change your designation. I tried.
I can't speak for any other State, but when it comes to Florida I've done my homework, made my contacts, copied the applicable regulations, and have even contacted my legislators.
A final example is that Florida defines a "truck tractor" as a vehicle which "bears some of the weight of the towed unit", as opposed to a "truck" which tows a vehicle (IE: receiver hitch). Further, Flodida defines the connection for a "truck tractor" as a FIFTH WHEEL. The statutes does NOT mention a gooseneck hitch - so which would YOU DO:
(1) tag the vehicle as a "truck", because it does NOT have a 5th wheel
(2) tag it as a "truck tractor" because it carries some of the weight of the towed vehicle ?
Also, I have a 3500 Ram dually - the weight I carry is on the heavier side, now and then, and the FL70 is better suited to handle it, both for towing, and for safety. My FL title, byt he way, under the box saying use, clearly says "PRIVATE". Because the dually was RATED at 12,200 and weighed 8,200 curb, I tried to tag it for the combined weight - they wanted a commercial policy !
With my combination "rated" above 26,000 (truck 12,200, trailer 20,000 = 32,200) I needed commercial insurance, even with a dually. Tried that too.
Florida has some catching up to do to make their regulations and definitions clear. If they simply said " any vehicle declaring weight over 26,000# must carry limits of ________", then fine. Easy to do. They don't say that. Better, since they allow the declaration of weight, they should allow the declaration of use. I wish it was as simple as you have told me it is, but it is not.
It ought to be simple - you're either engaged in business (commercial), or you are not. Period.
Florida Chapter 320 cleary states that if you declare a weight (when tagging a truck in excess of 26,000# which requires you to combine the GVW of the truck, trailer and load) of greater than 26,000# "you must have COMMERCIAL INSURANCE". It makes no mention of limits. It says "commercial insurance". Define it however you want, but that is the wording from that chapter, which deals with licensing of motor vehicles. Insurance deals with USE - that is why there is the difference between private policies ("pleasure use"), and business use. Perhaps higher limits are required for commercial as you say, however, the terms "low limit" or "higher limit" I have never heard - but I sure have heard "commercial insurance", and Florida uses THAT term in THEIR Chapter 320. I contacted several insurance agents, including one who has the COMMERCIAL AUTO POLICY for our business vehicles. I simply share what they say.
I am not being "fed" information by anyone. I have not (in years) driven commercially - never leased. I only share what I have learned in coversation with insurance agents here, with the State DMV staff attorney, and with the Floirda Dept of Insurance. My "use" is private", which means by its nature, my exposure should be less, because my miles driven are lower than anyone using a vehicle in commerce, day in, day out. I drive less than 10,000 annual miles with a trailer connected.
I am required to have a Class A CDL because, under the driver's license requirements of Florida, due to weight class, it's the law, even for "private" use.
The Federal statutes have a clear definition for "in commerce" and "furtherence of a business enterprise", as it realtes to THEIR definition of commercial, hence when THEIR regulations have to be followed. The State of Florida in Chapter 316 (Uniform Traffic Code), uses this definition, however in the vehicle license section, they simply define a commercial vehicle by WEIGHT, with no exception for USE (except the usual RV exception).
Since I can't declare a weight over 26,000 for tagging, because I do not have (NOR SHOULD I BE REQUIRED TO HAVE) a "commercial policy", I am under-tagged. Still no one has told me why any State other than Florida should care about my TAGGED weight (meaning "I paid the tax weight"), so long as my vehicle and load, in combination, is:
(1) insured
(2) tagged
(3) has no euipment defects
(4) is within its GVW, axle & tire ratings
The last two, (3)(4), deal with safety, and I can see why that is a concern to everyone. I should be properly licensed, but why does, as an example, the State of Wyoming care if I paid the State of Florida the extra $$$ for a higher GVW declared rating, since my use is not commercial, and my set up, when loaded with my OWN load, keeps everything UNDER ratings ?
If my vehicles are owned by me, and the load is owned by me and not offered for sale, my use is "private, not commercial". Not commercial means just that, so if a scale sign says "all COMMERCIAL vehicles must enter scales" - I don't. Why should I ? I don't see other large private vehicles doing so.
The RV exception is an issue: you can buy a bus with air brakes that weighs 30,000# and you are "excepted" from regulations, and of course have no requirement to scale.
Florida allows you to declare weight when tagging, but they don't allow you to declare USE. If I were in business, of course I'd abide by all State and Federal regulations, and have commercial insurance w/required ratings - it's not only the law, it is a level playing field for others in the like business. But as I am not, I am NOT required (and have been so advised by Florida DOT) to have DOT#, or follow any other commercial vehicle regulation. I may cross a scale as a courtesy so as not to be chased down, as I know the appearence of my rig may "look" commercial - but I have signage to the contrary, and the Florida DOT handbook required "actual proof of furtherence of a commercial enterprise, not mere suspicion" to enforce commercial regulations.Buses look like buses, but some are RV's. Florida does not allow you to change the definition from a "heavy truck" to an RV, UNLESS THE VEHICLE HAS A FIFTH WHEEL. So, if you have a gooseneck connection (which apparently Florida does not know exists...), you cannot change your designation. I tried.
I can't speak for any other State, but when it comes to Florida I've done my homework, made my contacts, copied the applicable regulations, and have even contacted my legislators.
A final example is that Florida defines a "truck tractor" as a vehicle which "bears some of the weight of the towed unit", as opposed to a "truck" which tows a vehicle (IE: receiver hitch). Further, Flodida defines the connection for a "truck tractor" as a FIFTH WHEEL. The statutes does NOT mention a gooseneck hitch - so which would YOU DO:
(1) tag the vehicle as a "truck", because it does NOT have a 5th wheel
(2) tag it as a "truck tractor" because it carries some of the weight of the towed vehicle ?
Also, I have a 3500 Ram dually - the weight I carry is on the heavier side, now and then, and the FL70 is better suited to handle it, both for towing, and for safety. My FL title, byt he way, under the box saying use, clearly says "PRIVATE". Because the dually was RATED at 12,200 and weighed 8,200 curb, I tried to tag it for the combined weight - they wanted a commercial policy !
With my combination "rated" above 26,000 (truck 12,200, trailer 20,000 = 32,200) I needed commercial insurance, even with a dually. Tried that too.
Florida has some catching up to do to make their regulations and definitions clear. If they simply said " any vehicle declaring weight over 26,000# must carry limits of ________", then fine. Easy to do. They don't say that. Better, since they allow the declaration of weight, they should allow the declaration of use. I wish it was as simple as you have told me it is, but it is not.
It ought to be simple - you're either engaged in business (commercial), or you are not. Period.
04-18-2007, 09:08 PM
#64
Registered User
Ok I tried..... Know this though, you drive a truck over 26,001 pounds out of state, you have to pay that state registration fees. And all trucks have to have a USDOT number if crossing state lines and over 26,001 pounds.
All trucks over 26,001 or more than three axles, crossing state lines much have a fuel permit for the state you are in, that means IFTA. Other states do not care a bit with you do in Florida, but they want their money..... you just don't get it. If you are over 26,001 you are commercial, like it or not. Look at another thread about New Mexico....
All trucks over 26,001 or more than three axles, crossing state lines much have a fuel permit for the state you are in, that means IFTA. Other states do not care a bit with you do in Florida, but they want their money..... you just don't get it. If you are over 26,001 you are commercial, like it or not. Look at another thread about New Mexico....
04-19-2007, 07:34 AM
#65
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We both tried. The nice thing about this forum is the sharing of issues and opinions, even if they don't always agree.
For those who may wish to research, go to www.fmcsa.dot.gov, go to part 390.5 definitions:
review:
Commercial motor vehicle
For hire motor carrier
Interstate commerce
Motor carrier
Private motor carrier
As I read these definitions, my stated positions remain unchanged. Since the definition of commercial motor vehicle clearly states "in interstate commerce", and the words under interstate commerce are defined in law (trade, traffic or transportation), I am comfortable with my understanding. Everyone has to come to their own conclusions and decisions, and again, I appreciate the input and sharing of knowledge and experiences. I hope that the original poster has benefited from all of the responses.
For those who may wish to research, go to www.fmcsa.dot.gov, go to part 390.5 definitions:
review:
Commercial motor vehicle
For hire motor carrier
Interstate commerce
Motor carrier
Private motor carrier
As I read these definitions, my stated positions remain unchanged. Since the definition of commercial motor vehicle clearly states "in interstate commerce", and the words under interstate commerce are defined in law (trade, traffic or transportation), I am comfortable with my understanding. Everyone has to come to their own conclusions and decisions, and again, I appreciate the input and sharing of knowledge and experiences. I hope that the original poster has benefited from all of the responses.
04-19-2007, 07:46 AM
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On TheDieselStop, anyone who doesn't have a bunch posts & posts a problem is accused of being a troll. Likewise someone has a bunch of posts there, but also has a Dodge (I have an Excusrion & a Ram) and makes any comments without saying Ford is the best truck, Ford has NO problems, etc., then they get accused of being snipers, envious of Ford trucks, etc.
Sorry to rant. I'll say it again, THIS IS A GREAT SITE
04-19-2007, 01:42 PM
#67
Registered User
Please let it be understood that I do not agree with what the law is doing in regard to trucks, especially light trucks. Now Florida is not going to recognise goose neck as a semi hitch, that is new. Most states are coming down on light trucks. We just had a lady killed where a trailer came off a Ford 250, hit a car in the side, killed Grandma. So there will be a clampdown in my area now.
Also wanted to add a point on insurance, the requirements for insurance in a state may not be as high as FMCSA standards. In Alabama you only need 300k for fulk commercial insurance, but FMCSA requires 750k for non hazardous crossing state lines.
Also wanted to add a point on insurance, the requirements for insurance in a state may not be as high as FMCSA standards. In Alabama you only need 300k for fulk commercial insurance, but FMCSA requires 750k for non hazardous crossing state lines.
04-19-2007, 03:08 PM
#68
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Haulin, why are you so hung up on 26,001 lbs, the only thing that number has to do with in reality is CDL licensing requirements, and apportioned registration.
Your first point: driving a truck out of state over 26,001 lbs you are required to pay that states reg. fee. That is correct, it is called an apportioned registration, and is required for commercial vehicles at 26,001 lbs or more.
Second point: all trucks 26,001 lbs or more crossing state lines need a USDOT#. That is incorrect, actually all trucks 10,001 lbs or greater, or meeting any other provision of the commercial vehicle definition (more on that later), crossing state lines need a USDOT#.
Third point: IFTA. You are correct IFTA (International Fuel Tax Agreement) is required for all commercial vehicles 26,001lbs or greater, or having 3 or more axles.
Last point: if you are 26,001 lbs or more you are commercial. WRONG, the only weight reference in the FMCSA definition of a commercial vehicle is 10,001 lbs. At 10,001 lbs you could be a commercial vehicle if you meet the rest of the definition.
I could have a moped that is a commercial vehicle by the FMCSA definition, all I need is a stick of dynomite. Dynomite is a class 1 hazardous material, that falls under table 1 of the hazmat regs. (along with all other explosives class1, and some other hazmat). Any amount of a table 1 hazmat being transported requires placards, and since the definition of commercial vehicle says that a vehicle "transporting any amount of a hazardous material that requires placarding" is a commercial vehicle, my moped, all 300 lbs. of it, just became a commercial vehicle. I would need a Class C CDL with a hazmat endorsment, and a USDOT# on my moped to operate it legally. Am I over 10,000 lbs, heck no nowhere near it, but I am a commercial motor vehicle per the FMCSA definition.
On the other hand I could have an 80,000lb 18 wheeler and not be commercial. IF (that is a very big if) the vehicle is truely not being used in any way, shape, or form to make money or in furtherance of a business, and is not transporting hazmat in an amount that requires placarding, then it IS NOT COMMERCIAL, and none of the FMCSA regs apply.
Yes I know both these examples are a bit extreme, but either one is possible.
Your first point: driving a truck out of state over 26,001 lbs you are required to pay that states reg. fee. That is correct, it is called an apportioned registration, and is required for commercial vehicles at 26,001 lbs or more.
Second point: all trucks 26,001 lbs or more crossing state lines need a USDOT#. That is incorrect, actually all trucks 10,001 lbs or greater, or meeting any other provision of the commercial vehicle definition (more on that later), crossing state lines need a USDOT#.
Third point: IFTA. You are correct IFTA (International Fuel Tax Agreement) is required for all commercial vehicles 26,001lbs or greater, or having 3 or more axles.
Last point: if you are 26,001 lbs or more you are commercial. WRONG, the only weight reference in the FMCSA definition of a commercial vehicle is 10,001 lbs. At 10,001 lbs you could be a commercial vehicle if you meet the rest of the definition.
I could have a moped that is a commercial vehicle by the FMCSA definition, all I need is a stick of dynomite. Dynomite is a class 1 hazardous material, that falls under table 1 of the hazmat regs. (along with all other explosives class1, and some other hazmat). Any amount of a table 1 hazmat being transported requires placards, and since the definition of commercial vehicle says that a vehicle "transporting any amount of a hazardous material that requires placarding" is a commercial vehicle, my moped, all 300 lbs. of it, just became a commercial vehicle. I would need a Class C CDL with a hazmat endorsment, and a USDOT# on my moped to operate it legally. Am I over 10,000 lbs, heck no nowhere near it, but I am a commercial motor vehicle per the FMCSA definition.
On the other hand I could have an 80,000lb 18 wheeler and not be commercial. IF (that is a very big if) the vehicle is truely not being used in any way, shape, or form to make money or in furtherance of a business, and is not transporting hazmat in an amount that requires placarding, then it IS NOT COMMERCIAL, and none of the FMCSA regs apply.
Yes I know both these examples are a bit extreme, but either one is possible.
04-19-2007, 06:43 PM
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04-19-2007, 06:50 PM
#71
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WOW...every book and website I have read about this says that above 26,000 lbs, you are commercial, no matter what, unless you are a big honking RV being driven by grandpa at 80 mph.
BELOW 26,000 lbs is where the different rules come into play to define commercial and private.
It's sad, but with so many differing opinions on here, and with a lot of them not being in line with the rules, the crackdown on light trucks will only get worse as more and more people break the laws.
And it doesn't matter what YOU think the law says, it's what the trooper & judge think it says.
Like here in VA, the 10,000 lb rule for trailers only applies if 1) you are commercial, or 2) the tractor or truck pulling said trailer has a gvwr over 26,000 lbs.
or at least that's what the DOT officers at the weigh station have explained to me (3 different officers on 4 different occasions)
and I don't know where some of you got your info, but this is straight from the FCMSA website:
The Federal standard requires States to issue a CDL to drivers according to the following license classifications:
Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
Class B -- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.
Class C -- Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that does not meet the definition of Class A or Class B, but is either designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, or is placarded for hazardous materials.
according to this, haulin is very correct
what gets most people is:
class a is only applicable if you are over 26,000 lbs total gvwr total with a trailer over 10k
class b says any such vehicle, meaning any single vehicle over 26,001 lbs gvwr, NOT simply any vehicle
BELOW 26,000 lbs is where the different rules come into play to define commercial and private.
It's sad, but with so many differing opinions on here, and with a lot of them not being in line with the rules, the crackdown on light trucks will only get worse as more and more people break the laws.
And it doesn't matter what YOU think the law says, it's what the trooper & judge think it says.
Like here in VA, the 10,000 lb rule for trailers only applies if 1) you are commercial, or 2) the tractor or truck pulling said trailer has a gvwr over 26,000 lbs.
or at least that's what the DOT officers at the weigh station have explained to me (3 different officers on 4 different occasions)
and I don't know where some of you got your info, but this is straight from the FCMSA website:
The Federal standard requires States to issue a CDL to drivers according to the following license classifications:
Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
Class B -- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.
Class C -- Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that does not meet the definition of Class A or Class B, but is either designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, or is placarded for hazardous materials.
according to this, haulin is very correct
what gets most people is:
class a is only applicable if you are over 26,000 lbs total gvwr total with a trailer over 10k
class b says any such vehicle, meaning any single vehicle over 26,001 lbs gvwr, NOT simply any vehicle
04-19-2007, 07:01 PM
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Here it is, directly from the FMCSA website, I changed nothing just cut and paste:
Commercial motor vehicle means any self-propelled or towed motor vehicle used on a highway in interstate commerce to transport passengers or property when the vehicle—
(1) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating, or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 4,536 kg (10,001 pounds) or more, whichever is greater; or
(2) Is designed or used to transport more than 8 passengers (including the driver) for compensation; or
(3) Is designed or used to transport more than 15 passengers, including the driver, and is not used to transport passengers for compensation; or
(4) Is used in transporting material found by the Secretary of Transportation to be hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 and transported in a quantity requiring placarding under regulations prescribed by the Secretary under 49 CFR, subtitle B, chapter I, subchapter C.
Someone please find where it says 26,001 lbs makes you automatically commercial no matter what.
Heck if someone can even find the number 26,000 in there I will send you a nice crisp Ben Franklin.
Commercial motor vehicle means any self-propelled or towed motor vehicle used on a highway in interstate commerce to transport passengers or property when the vehicle—
(1) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating, or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 4,536 kg (10,001 pounds) or more, whichever is greater; or
(2) Is designed or used to transport more than 8 passengers (including the driver) for compensation; or
(3) Is designed or used to transport more than 15 passengers, including the driver, and is not used to transport passengers for compensation; or
(4) Is used in transporting material found by the Secretary of Transportation to be hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 and transported in a quantity requiring placarding under regulations prescribed by the Secretary under 49 CFR, subtitle B, chapter I, subchapter C.
Someone please find where it says 26,001 lbs makes you automatically commercial no matter what.
Heck if someone can even find the number 26,000 in there I will send you a nice crisp Ben Franklin.
04-19-2007, 07:04 PM
#73
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and I don't know where some of you got your info, but this is straight from the FCMSA website:
The Federal standard requires States to issue a CDL to drivers according to the following license classifications:
Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
Class B -- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.
Class C -- Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that does not meet the definition of Class A or Class B, but is either designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, or is placarded for hazardous materials.
according to this, haulin is very correct
04-19-2007, 07:10 PM
#74
Registered User
never said it was...but I did say that if you are over 26,000 lbs, you must have a cdl....period...and last time I read...
CDL stands for Commercial Drivers License.
so by definiton, if you are over 26,000 lbs, you must have a cdl, and that means you are commercial....
with the sad exception being those big bus style RV's
You can play that word game all you want, but in court, I'm pretty sure you will lose. After all, why would a non-commercial driver (according to you) be required by law to have a commercial drivers license ??
unless the english language is different where you are from
What you posted is for vehicles between 10,000 lbs and 26,000 lbs....like box trucks that make deliveries...........they aren't considered commercial by weight, but are considered commercial by function, so they too must meet all commercial requirements, including a cdl
There are 2 sets of requirements for a cdl...either drive something with a gvwr over 26,000 lbs, or drive something over 10,000 lbs that is used in commerce/business.either one gets you a ticket for no cdl if caught.
Like the comment Don Imus made about the black female basketball players that got him fired.......you don't have to be black and a female to be offended.....if you meet either of those descriptions, chances are you were offended, but if you meet both, well............
For a cdl, you don't have to meet both the business AND weight requirements to be commercial, if you meet either one you need a cdl
Like it or not...it's your call (and your money when you get caught)
CDL stands for Commercial Drivers License.
so by definiton, if you are over 26,000 lbs, you must have a cdl, and that means you are commercial....
with the sad exception being those big bus style RV's
You can play that word game all you want, but in court, I'm pretty sure you will lose. After all, why would a non-commercial driver (according to you) be required by law to have a commercial drivers license ??
unless the english language is different where you are from
What you posted is for vehicles between 10,000 lbs and 26,000 lbs....like box trucks that make deliveries...........they aren't considered commercial by weight, but are considered commercial by function, so they too must meet all commercial requirements, including a cdl
There are 2 sets of requirements for a cdl...either drive something with a gvwr over 26,000 lbs, or drive something over 10,000 lbs that is used in commerce/business.either one gets you a ticket for no cdl if caught.
Like the comment Don Imus made about the black female basketball players that got him fired.......you don't have to be black and a female to be offended.....if you meet either of those descriptions, chances are you were offended, but if you meet both, well............
For a cdl, you don't have to meet both the business AND weight requirements to be commercial, if you meet either one you need a cdl
Like it or not...it's your call (and your money when you get caught)
04-19-2007, 07:21 PM
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El Wrongo. Most states offer NON-CDL class A, B and C licenses, same weight ratings as Commercial, only NON-Commercial. Even if your state does not offer a NON-CDL A,B,or C, and you are required to get a CDL for the weight of your vehicle or combination, that still DOSE NOT mean you are commercial.
Read the definition I posted above. According to the Feds you can only be commercial if you meet every provision in the first sentence and at least one of the 4 following provisions.
Read the definition I posted above. According to the Feds you can only be commercial if you meet every provision in the first sentence and at least one of the 4 following provisions.