I purchased two Holly Black pumps from Summit with the exact same problem of low pressure. I called Holley and they sent me some new pressure springs. After installation of the new spring nothing improved so I sent the junk back to Summit for a refund. I put a carter (Part Number P4601 HP) on the frame next to the fuel tank. This pump has the same specks as the factory pump and it is working fine. 12-psi at idle, 10-psi at 65mph and 7 WOT.

 

The line being to big in diameter and the pump not being able to flow enough fuel to fill the lines and put pressure on it. The pump is a 14 psi continous that flows 140gph. I talked to Summit about it and they said they would only exchange it if Holley said to. I'm going to remove as much of the excess line as possible on both the inlet and outlet. I'm going to make the lines as straight as possible. If that doesn't help, I'm going to give Holley the serial number. If there are pumps failing, then they should have the serial numebrs of those pumps that were made at that time. If that doesn't solve anything, I'm going to put the stock pump back on, and send the unit to Holley and have them flow test it. I'll let yall know how the shortening of the line goes. I think I have a fuel leak somewhere cause when the truck sits over night, when I fire it up the next morning, the pressure has to build up in it. Meaning that it is losing pressure somewhere. I think it's my fuel filter canister drain valve. I've had trouble with it before and the cap I had on it broke off (it was cheap rubber). I'm going to try that and see what happens. Quick question, I took off the stock mounting bracket to make my life a little easier to mount the adaptor plate (it didn't). Well, I don't if yall know it, but there is a whole in our engine block right behind it that exposes the oil pan. There is a gasket there also. Well, needless to say, I have an oil leak now. I'm going to tighten it up today when I get home but do yall think it is doing any harm having that there? Do we have a pressurized oiling system or a crankcase ventilation system or something? Thanks.

 

How much fuel per hour or minute does the dodge use??? This would be on a dead stock truck. It seems that a pump that does 280GPH is a little much. I want this info because I want to install a second 3 micron filter at the fuel tank and need to size the filter right to avoid flow restrictions.

 

Big BLue,<br>I'm gonna give you a little of the knowledge I have aquired as I have been doing the same thing, but with a Holley Blue. You got 10 minutes? ;D<br><br>First, While I do not wish to **** anyone off, I don't care what anyone tells you, an electric fuel pump needs to be mounted as close to the fuel tank as possible. This applies, if possible, even more to the Holley fuel pumps because they are gravity fed. I will qualify that last statement by saying that when the Holley tech and I were discussing it we were discussing my Holley Blue fuel pump, and since the Blue and the black are pretty much identical, except for the flow ratings, I assume gravity feed applies to the Black also. You may want to ask Holley directly. The Holley tech did ask where I mounted the pump in relation to the fuel tank. The way I mounted it was on the frame rail, with the fitting/pump section, at the same level as the bottom of the tank, if not a smidgeon lower. The Holley tech said this was satisfactory. Now, for those mounting in the original location, I submit that some pumps will work properly, for the same reasons the stock pump works OK on some trucks, a freak of nature.<br><br>Next, the Holley pump specs are for use with 3/8 line. If your line is larger, it may be a factor in the pressure problem, in addition to the mounting location, though I doubt it. Even if your line is 3/4 inch, once the pump builds up the pressure after it begins running, the pressure should stay up unless the engine is using more volume than the pump can handle, regardless of the size of line. The pump make take a little longer to build up pressure when it first starts if you have alrger fuel line, because there is more area within the line to fill before pressure can build. Simple physics here.<br>To further support what I have just explained, I will say that I constructed my fuel system incorrectly the first time, causing my fuel pressure to drop too low. What happened it I used the only metric fittings for the fuel filter housing I could find locally. After 100 miles of running around, the only fittings I found were hydraulic adapters with .170 holes in them. I went ahead and purchased them with thoughs of drilling them out to at least 1/4, or maybe 5/16. I ended up deciding not to do this due to thin wall concerns for the hose mipples that connected to them. I assembled it with the fittings as is, which meant my fuel system was only as good flowing as the smallest orifice, the .170 (smaller than 3/16) hydraulic fitting, because the rest of the system used 3/8 line. <br><br>Side Note: while the stock banjo bolts only have .130 holes it has 2 of them through and trough (translates to 4 holes around the circumference of the banjo bolt), which allows higher flow than a single .170 hole. End Side Note.<br><br>Fired up the pump when the engine wasn't running I had 12 lbs of pressure. As soon as I started the engine I dropped to 6 lbs (because the engine is using some if the flow/pressure. When I upped the RPMs to about 1000, when trying to move it, the pressure dropped to 0. I knew the pump was pumping, but the problem was that the pump could not flow enough through that small hose to satisfy the engine's needs, hence the pressure dropped because the fuel volume could not be replenished as fast as the egine was using it. If I'd had 3/4 inch line and the engine wasn't using the volume the 3/4 inch could flow, my pressure would never have dropped more than a pound or two.<br><br>Next, The pressure dropping in your fuel system when the engine/pump is not running is normal since the fuel system has a bypass. This is how thr VP44 pump is lubricated and cooled.<br><br>Lastly, when wiring your fuel pump you should use a universal relay to supply pump power as the aftermarket pump may pull more amperage than the stock pump, and you don't want to fry anything (mayeb your pump is guaranteed not to pull any more than the factory wiring can handle, but I'd prefer not to risk it). I used a 'Standard' PN LR-32, which cost about 36 bucks. It can handle 20 amps and has its one onboard fuse.<br>The other reason you may not want to use the factory fuel wiring is because the computer handles the fuel pump power. You may notice that when you turn the key on, the fuel pump cycles for a couple of seconds then cuts off until you start the engine or have the key off for about 90 seconds before turning it back on. Now, the flip side of this is maybe you don't want the fuel pump running when the engine is not running, as the computer dictates. I will leave that up to you. You can wire the realy into the OEM fuel pump wiring just fine.<br><br>Sorry this is so long. I was just trying to explain it thoroughly.<br><br>Hope this helps,<br>Chris

 

[quote author=Stamey link=board=7;threadid=9266;start=15#91120 date=1042346021]<br>1) Even if your line is 3/4 inch, once the pump builds up the pressure after it begins running, the pressure should stay up unless the engine is using more volume than the pump can handle, regardless of the size of line.<br><br>2) Lastly, when wiring your fuel pump you should use a universal relay to supply pump power as the aftermarket pump may pull more amperage than the stock pump, and you don't want to fry anything (mayeb your pump is guaranteed not to pull any <br>[/quote]<br><br>Good post, Chris. Just a couple items I wanted to address here (we won't get into the tank mount, versus underhood debate ;D)<br><br>1) I was glad to hear you say that. The bigger lines are simply acting as a reservoir, and to ease pumping pressure on the Holley. A VP44 can only flow a max of 45 - 50 GPH (bypass and injection), and since the Holley is capable of supplying 140 GPH in free flow mode, there is no way that the Holley shouldn't be able to keep up.<br><br>2) One of the reasons we chose the Holley Black was that it would only draw a max of 4amps (in continuous duty, which its rated for). This is about the same as a stock lift pump, hence eliminating the need for relays.<br><br>The problems that BigBlue is having with the Holley Black appears to be from some kind of manufacturing problem. Before I recommended the use of Holleys, I did a survey of some of my suppliers to see what they were recommending for use. Everyone of them came back to me saying that they had been using the Holley Blacks, and having great luck with them. So one of my dealers offered his truck as a guinea pig, and we installed a Black pump and kit on his truck. After install, we had 16 PSI at idle, 14 PSI WOT, all with the Black in the stock location. 5 more of my dealers repeated this install on 8 trucks, and each time we ended up with 15-16 PSI at idle, and about 2 PSI drop at WOT.<br><br>In the last month, however, we've had a string of Black failures that has left us puzzled. A call into Holley revealed that they had a production run of pumps with bad bypass valves, and that was the likely culprit behind the low pressure syndrome.<br><br>Where am I going with all this? Until Holley gets their act together, I'm not going to recommend the Holley Black pump to anyone in our application. I've tried to notify my existing customers who haven't done an install yet, to stop them from possibly wasting their time (as Blue has done here). The factory lift pump appears to work well with the larger lines in place, and is the only pump I will be recommending until we've finished putting the PE4200 pump through trials.<br><br>Rod

 

Thanks Rod. I know that the mounting location can be argued, and I am not trying to start flames over it. I am just trying to state historical knowledge, what I have learned over the years, in diesel and in gas applications. I understand one of your goals is to make it simple, and if you have found a solution that does not have to be mounted by the tank, more power to you. I am quite sure you have a bigger R &amp; D department than I do and I do not wish to state things that are outright wrong. If I have stated anything that is just plain wrong, please correct me.<br><br><br>Chris

 

[quote author=Stamey link=board=7;threadid=9266;start=15#91219 date=1042398531]<br>I know that the mounting location can be argued, and I am not trying to start flames over it. I am just trying to state historical knowledge, what I have learned over the years, in diesel and in gas applications. I understand one of your goals is to make it simple, and if you have found a solution that does not have to be mounted by the tank, more power to you.<br>[/quote]<br><br>No flame war taken ;D And I'm in total agreement with you when you say that its easier on the pumps to push than pull and that they were intended to be gravity fed. We chose the factory location for a few reasons:<br><br>1) What's killing the factory lifts isn't so much the pull from the tank, it was the restrictive lines from lift to VP44. The pump was forever operating in a bypass mode, and the bypass was failing.<br><br>2) Simplicity<br><br>3) The northern environment (including northern US) is prone to alot of snow, slush, and salt. Throwing a pump back there is asking for a failure, unless its a sealed marine pump. From my days on agricultural equipment, I've had too many electric pumps bite the dust from being exposed to the elements, so I just wasn't comfortable placing a pump back by the tank.<br><br>If I had foresaw the events from the past month, with these dead out of the box Holleys, I would have listened to one of my dealers when he recommended the Product Engineering pumps 8 months ago. We've got one coming up here, and after speaking with John (I think thats his name), the owner of the place, I have a cheery outlook on the lift pump blues. The PE pumps are designed so that they will be able to make the draw from the tank to underhood, as long as the pump intake is not higher than 1.5 ft above the bottom of the tank. So this means we can mount underhood, away from the elements, and still have reliable operation.<br><br>For the lower power crowd, I strongly suspect that simply opening up the lines from lift to VP44 will be plenty to get additional life from the lift pump. A couple good customers are currently running in this configuration, and we'll be watching closely over the next few months.<br><br>And of course, if you have any suggestions, I'd love to hear them. I honestly believe that an open and fair exchange, without flames or bruised feelings, is the only way that this whole issue will be resolved.<br><br>Rod

 

I think that maybe the best position of a pusher pump would be behind the fuel tank and as low as possible. <br>I think so because you need most of the fuel while either accelerating or driving up a slope. So under these conditions the acceleration or gravity would feed the pump better, because it is lower. Also the pump assembly would be protected against road debris and salt by the fuel tank. <br>I think this could compensate for the longer pressure line needed if the line was of a sufficient diameter ( like 12mm id) <br><br>Just my 2 c<br><br>AlpineRAM

 

Well, I finally got the pressure up. For those of yall that didn't know, I put a Holley Black on my truck about a week ago and have had trouble with the pressure ever since. I only got 9 psi at idle. Not good considering it is set to flow 140gph at 14 psi free flow from the factory. I called Summit and I called Holley and couldn't get a straight answer from either of them. I finally got a competent worker from Holley that told me to pull the bypass plunger out and clean it and shoot some brake cleaner inside the plunger valley and to see if that helped. Well, I did that and the pressure shot up instantly. It idle anywhere between 8-17 and holds 11psi at WOT with comp on. Now, here's my question. The pump fluctuates pressure wildly. While I'm accelerating, it holds between 13-15 psi. When I stop, it drops down to about 6-8. Then as soon as I touch the gas, it jumps right back up to 14 or so. I'm assuming this is normal since it is an unregulated pump and that it is adjusting itself to the amount of pressure required by the VP44. Or something like that. Does this sound right to you? I would like to extend my most sincere thanks to Rod for helping me out through this ordeal. I can't tell you how many emails I have sent to him and how much help I have gotten from him. The kit is an excellent kit and bolts up nice and easy. All of the parts are very high quality. For any of yall that are planning to do this, I would suggest cleaning the plunger BEFORE putting it on the truck. It is very easy to get to while it is on the truck, but do it anyways to save yourself the hassle of this. THANK YOU ROD!!!!!

 

BB- As I read it you have a digital FP gauge. I have experienced funny readings from digital gauges when there were oscillations in the measured value. The VP44 causes some pulsations in the fuel system, especially at idle speed. Maybe you can try to hook up a mechanical gauge and see whether it's the gauge or the pressure. <br>Your hint about the plunger sounds interesting. Maybe it could have been better to lubricate the plunger to make it travel easily. <br><br>Just my 2c<br><br>AlpineRAM

 

The sender is mounted about 18&quot; away from the VP44. I replaced all of the line with a new one that Rod sent me and for some reason, it helped the pressure steady out. It holds 16.0-16.6 psi at idle, and never drops below 13.0 at WOT. Normal accleration and cruising at 70 is 14.0-14.6/15.2 respectively. I'll let yall know what happens since I have only been able to drive the truck about 20 mins since I replaced the line.<br><br>Regarding the plunger. I pulled it out the other day and ran over it a couple of times with some emery paper (very fine grit, just a little buffing) and sparyed carb cleaner on it and inside the pump per Holley's instructions. That is what got my pressure up.