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np205 to nv 4500

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Old 04-04-2004, 10:55 PM   #1  
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np205 to nv 4500

Hi,
I need some help, does any one know what is involved in making this swap. I have a 96 ctd 4x4 and a np 205 out of a ford. I would like to mate the two for the ultimate in durability. Would likley twin stick it ( independent shifters for 4 wheel and hi and low range).

Thanks John
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Old 04-04-2004, 11:07 PM   #2  
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Im about 99.99% sure Advance Adapters makes the piece that youll need

www.advanceadapters.com
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Old 04-04-2004, 11:15 PM   #3  
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quantrill88,

Yea I know they do but I wanted to do this without any adapters. I believe that the parts can be mated by changing the output shaft of the transmission to mate the ford np 205. I just don't know the right parts.
Thanks
John
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Old 04-04-2004, 11:21 PM   #4  
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You need to look at one thing on this swap. The Ford driveshaft is on the wrong side. Maybe you can clock it but that I don't know. Please keep me up on it as I have two of them here and would like to do the same thing. I can tell you this, the 205 does mount to the ford with an adaptor, stock but still an adaptor. I have GM and c6 adaptors here. What might be easier is to go independant, I plan on looking into that as a better stronger deal.
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Old 04-04-2004, 11:31 PM   #5  
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Haulin,

The ford np205 drive shaft is on the correct side, it's the chevy and dodge versions that are on the wrong side. The clocking might be slightly off, I don't know yet. I have been told that I can change the out put of my nv4500 to match and and change the rear drive shaft to a slip joint. The universals can be changed to accomadate as well. I just need info on part no#"s for the output shaft and misc.

Thanks
John
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Old 04-05-2004, 01:17 AM   #6  
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Quote:
Originally posted by jabcon
Haulin,

The ford np205 drive shaft is on the correct side, it's the chevy and dodge versions that are on the wrong side. The clocking might be slightly off, I don't know yet. I have been told that I can change the out put of my nv4500 to match and and change the rear drive shaft to a slip joint. The universals can be changed to accomadate as well. I just need info on part no#"s for the output shaft and misc.

Thanks
John
Please translate that for me. YOu started the thread with a Ford np205, I said it was on the wrong side. What am I missing? Did Dodge change sides?
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Old 04-05-2004, 01:31 AM   #7  
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Depends on how you look at it. Since dodge and chevy are on the same side, that would mean ford is on the wrong side. Or does it? Maybe Dodge and chevy put their stuff on the wrong side. Is there really a right and wrong side? CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?!?!?!?
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Old 04-05-2004, 07:23 AM   #8  
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Haulin,

Dodge changed sides, from 1st gen to 2nd gen the front drive shaft changed from passenger to drivers. Ford was allways on the divers side chevy is on the passenger side. Therefore to mate up a np 205 to a 2nd gen you need a ford transfer case. Besides the ford unite has heaiver outputs.

John
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Old 04-05-2004, 11:50 AM   #9  
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Quote:
Originally posted by jabcon
Haulin,

Dodge changed sides, from 1st gen to 2nd gen the front drive shaft changed from passenger to drivers. Ford was allways on the divers side chevy is on the passenger side. Therefore to mate up a np 205 to a 2nd gen you need a ford transfer case. Besides the ford unite has heaiver outputs.

John
Thanks for the info, I was always told that Ford was on the wrong side, guess they were talking about first gen. Guess that means that the Ford dana F-70 front axle here could be adapted to the Dodge See years ago I had a F150 and was going to convert it to 4wd and acquired an F-70, transfer case, springs, shocks, the whole front end and a Dana 70 rear. Later sold the rear axle. Even have the drive shafts.
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Old 04-07-2004, 10:24 AM   #10  
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You can do it, I did, The problem you will run into if you change the output of the tranny is that the smaller gas output CAN NOT HANDLE THE TORQUE. youll munch it. The AA unit is not cut out for CUMMINS torque either IMHO, a friend of mine tried it, the spud shaft sheared off about 30k down the road and he was only pushing 600 ft/lbs but he would pull with it. No Recommended. The Dodge input and output are the way to go.

The gas splined shaft only can handle about 450-550 ft/lbs in gas applications, alot of guys upgrade because the roach them in gas towing applications. i ended up building an aluminium spacer for between the nv4500 tail housing and the face of the NP205. I installed the 89-93 dodge input shaft into the NP205 and the corrisponding collar. Remember to remove the seal in the back of the tranny it is smaller than the collar diameter

The aluminium adapter is basically an extension of the tail housing. I used B7 stock? (cant remember) all thread studs threaded into the t-case, i measured a dodge np205 adapter and made the aluminium space the same dimensions all except for the clearances on the t-case side since those had to match the ford face. Also machine in o-ring grooves 4-5" in diameter into the face of the spacer and install two dowls. If you dont the thing will clock under torque and rip the o-rings. Use a piece of 8" solid round stock chuck it up in a lathe its all straight forward you can use steel too.


Dont get me wrong AA makes excellent stuff, im using one of thier adapter bellhousings on my jeep to marry an AMC 401 up to a NV4500 but i dont think that the design of the np205 ford adapter upto dodge nv4500's was not designed with our hp and torque numbers and the loads that we pull in mind. I think they were thinking about people taking dodge nv4500's (because dodge uses the longest input shaft)and mating them up to older gas engines to get the OD and still use thier old t-case.

If you really want to change to a smaller output call Ken Miller at Inland truck Missoula Mt he has an intricate knowledge of NV4500 parts and knows how to mix and match 406-728-7413.

Also you are correct 1st gen Dodges were pass side output same with chevy. Chevy changed to driverside with the IFS in 88 and up 92 and up with certain models and Dodge did the same with the introduction of the Gen2's. Ford for the most part has been drivers side output since day 1, minus a few outlying production and special units over the years. We dont need to discuss that though.

Good Luck
Dusty
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Old 04-07-2004, 11:07 AM   #11  
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ddestruel

Thanks, for the help. I intend on building up the 4500 with a 1 3/8 input shaft and installing heavy duty yokes on the 205. The future could see twins on the truck!! Later I might have more questions, again thanks.

John
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Old 04-07-2004, 12:17 PM   #12  
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If you do use the NP 205 email me and ill take a picture or 3 of the adapter seeinga s it will be out of the truck in the next couple of months. It's not a problem to shoot you any data you might need, i might even still know someone with a lathe and milling machine that might be into making one of these, i dont know if hed go steal or aluminium ill rattle his cage next time i see him.

The clocking is goodfor the 205 up to the nv4500 no worries youll just have to decide on whether or not you want to change ouputs or look at staying HD. Also port out the oil hole on the tail housing a little to get some more flow through it, mine tended to get a little hot upon recent inspection.

Granted its not pretty with 300k miles of oil leaking on it, because I Didnt put the dowls in and kept ripping o-rings out. but it will give you an idea and i can do the measuring too. Also with my adapter w/o the dowls i was only pushing half the power you are talking about, and it kept clocking, but i did pull 20-30k pretty regular, i just point this out becuase it was a nagging irritation. Definately pass on the AA kit and look at this route when you do it.

trust me being stranded in Utah on Highway I 15 because of the splines twisting and shearing off of the output is no fun. We felt like idiots when we tore the tranny and t-case apart. Should have thought a little more in depth about the torque load.

Like i said been there done that so when you get ready write me and ill do what i can to round up info ect.

Dusty
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Old 04-07-2004, 04:42 PM   #13  
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I have a NP 205 out of a 75 F250 in the garage floor. its the divorce type, if you need any dimensions from it I can give them to you.
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Old 04-07-2004, 05:39 PM   #14  
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ddestruel and company,

Thank you, you have been great! I have the transfer case and will start this project as soon as I can get all the parts together and the nv4500 rebuilt with the heavy duty parts. I would be most aprecitive of any help that you can give, and I would be willing to pay you for the spacer if you wanted to have it made for me. Steel would be the prefered material as I am looking for the greatest strength possible. As far as the imput for the transfer case which one did you use, the imput from a Dodge 1st gen with a stick? On another note why can't I use the same synthetic oil in the transfer case as the transmission?
Thanks again.

John
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Old 04-07-2004, 05:45 PM   #15  
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I used the same oil in both for 300k miles no problems, you dont have to since the ford seal fits over the dodge 1st gen input shaft and keeps the oils seperate.

Good question i forgot to mention that it is the Dodge 1st gen manual transmission input shaft and the slip collar.

Its almost easier to pickup a complete dodge 205, ussually about 1/2 of the t-cases have the collar near them or still on the input shaft so that makes it all the easier, i got my dodge np205 for 100.00 and it came with all the parts i needed including the input and heavy duty yoke, then i was able to mix and match the gears to get the ones that had the least amount of wear.

Ill see what the guy says. doesnt take long to build so i dont see why it would cost much, especially since he would already have a model to work with.

D
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