LUK clutch...any good
02-03-2005, 06:06 PM
#16
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Ceramic that does not chatter, ok.... but plan on changing the flywheel when the thing wears out. The clutch does not wear, the pressure plate and flywheel does...
02-03-2005, 06:32 PM
#17
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Any pressure plate and flywheel wear. Thats part of the reason you re-surface the flywheel. But, yes ceramic will wear out a flywheel faster, especially if it is slipping.
02-03-2005, 06:45 PM
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Yes the stocker was original, had 97,000 total miles on it and I had punished it to death from about 30,000 miles onward. For the last 20,000 miles I had stage 4 edms, a TST pm3 comp stacked with an edge. And I loved doing high RPM third gear launces.. Bottom line, that stock clutch didnt owe me jack.
Yes its the NV5600 6 Sp. Well, the R&R was about the most frustrating I have ever done. I have done a M-21 Muncie probably 20 times, and a Jerico 4 spd three times in my drag car over the years (got a powerglide now and will never go back) and I converted to a Nv 4500 5 sp in a 94 Burban. This trans is a tank, plain and simple. It is quite the bear to move around. Yes I did move it with the transfer case. It is so heavy you would not believe. WAY WAY WAY heavier than my NV 4500 5 sp I put in the Burban.....
As for wearing out a flywheel, everytime you do a clucth change you should be taking at least .030" off of the flywheel or whatever it takes to remove all signs of hardened hot spots. In my case, I had to take .070" to clean it and this was usage from a stock organic disk. So what exactly am I to worry about with a cerrametallic disk? Wearing it out?? That flywheel had 97,000 miles on it and I took .070" off of it removed all hardened spots and its as good as new, but now 12 lbs lighter. So another 97,000 miles from now, I wont be heartbroken if I have to replace it with a new one.....
Kevin
Yes its the NV5600 6 Sp. Well, the R&R was about the most frustrating I have ever done. I have done a M-21 Muncie probably 20 times, and a Jerico 4 spd three times in my drag car over the years (got a powerglide now and will never go back) and I converted to a Nv 4500 5 sp in a 94 Burban. This trans is a tank, plain and simple. It is quite the bear to move around. Yes I did move it with the transfer case. It is so heavy you would not believe. WAY WAY WAY heavier than my NV 4500 5 sp I put in the Burban.....
As for wearing out a flywheel, everytime you do a clucth change you should be taking at least .030" off of the flywheel or whatever it takes to remove all signs of hardened hot spots. In my case, I had to take .070" to clean it and this was usage from a stock organic disk. So what exactly am I to worry about with a cerrametallic disk? Wearing it out?? That flywheel had 97,000 miles on it and I took .070" off of it removed all hardened spots and its as good as new, but now 12 lbs lighter. So another 97,000 miles from now, I wont be heartbroken if I have to replace it with a new one.....
Kevin
02-04-2005, 03:05 PM
#21
600 Megawatts,
Kevin,
I'm not sure of your dislike for me or South Bend Clutch or the people who have chosen to purchase from us. Your choice of choosing the cerametalic clutch is certainly your choice. Your remarks toward us and our product, in poor taste that they are, have been incorrect. You, in fact, have no idea what we do with the pressure plates to enhance the plate loads. They are, for a fact, altered to create a higher plate load. I read where someone stated where the ceramic clutches hold up for 500,000 miles on semi's. This is true, but understand that they are 15 1/2" double disc clutches with 4,000 lbs of plate load and the clutches themselves have adjusters in them so they may be manually adjusted to extend their longevity. Your Dodge trucks do not have any adjusting to them what-so-ever. The question of the cerametalic holding goes without question, of course it will hold. We chose not to use this route 7 years ago due to the longevity of the clutches. Sure, it would be great if we're able to buy the less expensive metalic material, but in the long run, the clutches simply would not last. The grooving to the casting, flywheel and pressure plate, will be severe. This is why we chose the higher end, much more expensive feramic material for the clutch discs. The feramic facings, per facing, which there are two on each disc, are 5 times the cost of the cerametalic. The friction companies themselves (the people who make the material) have provided us with charts that show the iron wear as well as the heat tollerances. Feramic beats cerametalic in both categories hands down.
I noticed by your sig and checking your profile that you do not show who you are, where you are from, in fact you don't even show what kind of truck you have or what mods you have. I would think this to be somewhat questionable.
Also, dealing with the chatter, this is not only stated by SBC users or anyone else, it is stated directly from Luk themselves. Clutches that contain metal, even ours, will exhibit chatter. Quite often they will be smooth in the beginning but trust me, it will begin to do so once the grooving of the casting is started. I believe that you are misleading people.
As for another statement that you said in either this thread or your other thread about turning the flywheel, and the fact that you do it yourself on a lathe, again, leaves a little to be desired for your knowledge. Any clutch company, as well as Luk, will tell you to NEVER surface your flywheel on a lathe, they should only be stone ground. Also, you stated that you took 70 thousandth metal off your flywheel in order to get rid of the hot spots, is also UNBELIEVEABLE. When flywheel cores are returned to us with any more then 40 thousandth missing they go in the garbage can. Resurfacing a flywheel should take no more then 10 thousandth.
Folks, good luck with your choice, it is an open and free market, but remember one thing, it's not always in the price. We have a little saying on our wall, Price, Quality, Service, pick two. If you do have a problem with the clutch or you do not like the way it performs or you have premature failure what will they do?
Peter
South Bend Clutch
Kevin,
I'm not sure of your dislike for me or South Bend Clutch or the people who have chosen to purchase from us. Your choice of choosing the cerametalic clutch is certainly your choice. Your remarks toward us and our product, in poor taste that they are, have been incorrect. You, in fact, have no idea what we do with the pressure plates to enhance the plate loads. They are, for a fact, altered to create a higher plate load. I read where someone stated where the ceramic clutches hold up for 500,000 miles on semi's. This is true, but understand that they are 15 1/2" double disc clutches with 4,000 lbs of plate load and the clutches themselves have adjusters in them so they may be manually adjusted to extend their longevity. Your Dodge trucks do not have any adjusting to them what-so-ever. The question of the cerametalic holding goes without question, of course it will hold. We chose not to use this route 7 years ago due to the longevity of the clutches. Sure, it would be great if we're able to buy the less expensive metalic material, but in the long run, the clutches simply would not last. The grooving to the casting, flywheel and pressure plate, will be severe. This is why we chose the higher end, much more expensive feramic material for the clutch discs. The feramic facings, per facing, which there are two on each disc, are 5 times the cost of the cerametalic. The friction companies themselves (the people who make the material) have provided us with charts that show the iron wear as well as the heat tollerances. Feramic beats cerametalic in both categories hands down.
I noticed by your sig and checking your profile that you do not show who you are, where you are from, in fact you don't even show what kind of truck you have or what mods you have. I would think this to be somewhat questionable.
Also, dealing with the chatter, this is not only stated by SBC users or anyone else, it is stated directly from Luk themselves. Clutches that contain metal, even ours, will exhibit chatter. Quite often they will be smooth in the beginning but trust me, it will begin to do so once the grooving of the casting is started. I believe that you are misleading people.
As for another statement that you said in either this thread or your other thread about turning the flywheel, and the fact that you do it yourself on a lathe, again, leaves a little to be desired for your knowledge. Any clutch company, as well as Luk, will tell you to NEVER surface your flywheel on a lathe, they should only be stone ground. Also, you stated that you took 70 thousandth metal off your flywheel in order to get rid of the hot spots, is also UNBELIEVEABLE. When flywheel cores are returned to us with any more then 40 thousandth missing they go in the garbage can. Resurfacing a flywheel should take no more then 10 thousandth.
Folks, good luck with your choice, it is an open and free market, but remember one thing, it's not always in the price. We have a little saying on our wall, Price, Quality, Service, pick two. If you do have a problem with the clutch or you do not like the way it performs or you have premature failure what will they do?
Peter
South Bend Clutch
02-04-2005, 03:21 PM
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Good post, Peter.
600 Has been on here for a while-- he's no troll or anything. But methinks he gets a certain pleasure from going against the grain a bit, so he may be inclined to enjoy ruffling the feathers of SBC fans.
If my stocker would only die, I'd drop in a Con FE
Chatter/schmatter-- I need something that's tough and will hold.
JLH
600 Has been on here for a while-- he's no troll or anything. But methinks he gets a certain pleasure from going against the grain a bit, so he may be inclined to enjoy ruffling the feathers of SBC fans.
If my stocker would only die, I'd drop in a Con FE
Chatter/schmatter-- I need something that's tough and will hold.JLH
02-04-2005, 04:44 PM
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Well Peter on a few items I must respectfully disagree and add the following.
One, don’t ever question my integrity or my knowledge again. I never personally attacked you on any post and I do not appreciate you personally attacking me. Is that clear?
Two, I have stated my mods specifically in this post but apparently you did not read it thoroughly enough. Correct I don't have my mods or my address, phone number or social security number etc. in my signature. I prefer to not have the entire internet community aware of my truck and where I live, etc. I have shared this information with some members via PM’s however.
Three, I could not even more possibly disagree with you regarding machining the flywheel. One simple fact, new flywheels come machined on a lathe not ground. It is mine and dozens of other drag racers' opinion that turned flywheels are best for holding power and breaking in a new clutch. It has been suggested the ground finish is both too smooth and also the spot heating occurring on the top few thousands of the surface creates a harder surface, which proves better for long term wear, but not for coefficient of friction. As for removing .070" go ahead and call it unbelievable, I have no problem with it at all. I removed 13 Lbs of rotating inertia in the process. I have taken far more off of my drag car flywheels in the past. This is a thick and heavy flywheel and I respectfully suggest that nothing was compromised with taking a .070" cut. But I am not a Dodge truck clutch expert, you claim to be and LUK obviously is so maybe I am wrong.
Four, as far as chatter I specifically mentioned how I had indeed expected chatter. There is even a note that comes with the clutch about chatter. This clutch exhibits no chatter in my truck. Perhaps something is wrong with my setup, but it does not chatter. Period. Anyone who lives near Pittsburgh, PA is welcome to PM me and I would be glad set up a meeting to have them drive my truck and confirm this much. I am not misleading anyone and do not appreciate the Libel you wrote suggesting that I am.
HOHN, on the money buddy, I love going against the grain. Its great fun and you learn more that way and usually save money too!!!
Kevin
One, don’t ever question my integrity or my knowledge again. I never personally attacked you on any post and I do not appreciate you personally attacking me. Is that clear?
Two, I have stated my mods specifically in this post but apparently you did not read it thoroughly enough. Correct I don't have my mods or my address, phone number or social security number etc. in my signature. I prefer to not have the entire internet community aware of my truck and where I live, etc. I have shared this information with some members via PM’s however.
Three, I could not even more possibly disagree with you regarding machining the flywheel. One simple fact, new flywheels come machined on a lathe not ground. It is mine and dozens of other drag racers' opinion that turned flywheels are best for holding power and breaking in a new clutch. It has been suggested the ground finish is both too smooth and also the spot heating occurring on the top few thousands of the surface creates a harder surface, which proves better for long term wear, but not for coefficient of friction. As for removing .070" go ahead and call it unbelievable, I have no problem with it at all. I removed 13 Lbs of rotating inertia in the process. I have taken far more off of my drag car flywheels in the past. This is a thick and heavy flywheel and I respectfully suggest that nothing was compromised with taking a .070" cut. But I am not a Dodge truck clutch expert, you claim to be and LUK obviously is so maybe I am wrong.
Four, as far as chatter I specifically mentioned how I had indeed expected chatter. There is even a note that comes with the clutch about chatter. This clutch exhibits no chatter in my truck. Perhaps something is wrong with my setup, but it does not chatter. Period. Anyone who lives near Pittsburgh, PA is welcome to PM me and I would be glad set up a meeting to have them drive my truck and confirm this much. I am not misleading anyone and do not appreciate the Libel you wrote suggesting that I am.
HOHN, on the money buddy, I love going against the grain. Its great fun and you learn more that way and usually save money too!!!
Kevin
02-04-2005, 05:30 PM
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And another thing... You know what, I do go against the grain bigtime. And I have been real hard on Don M's company and the FASS company too, but you don’t see them jumping all over me making personal attacks on me do you? They just support their case with solid technical data and leave it to that... Isn't that interesting…..
Kevin
Kevin
02-04-2005, 06:39 PM
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Good discussion guys (about the clutch that is). I personally see nothing wrong with trying something different. I agree with you 600, going against the grain is nothing to be ashamed of. If I did everthing I read on here, I would be broke and in bankruptcy court. I've been told NEVER to run the stock fuel system over 300 hp. I took mine, stock banjos and all, to 458....with the original VP and lift pump at 130,000 miles. I've been told you can't sled pull with an HX40.......I broke the center plate out of my Mitchell clutch, but still never had the 40 give me a problem. Before that I was told you HAVE to replace the input shaft on an NV4500 to run a dual disk; I didn't change it out and see my above comment on what broke first . It's all in how you look at things. If people never tried something different, this would be a boring board. Sorry for the rant, nothing personal Peter. However, it's different strokes for different folks.....let him try what he wants.........
600.....Good luck with the clutch
andy
. It's all in how you look at things. If people never tried something different, this would be a boring board. Sorry for the rant, nothing personal Peter. However, it's different strokes for different folks.....let him try what he wants.........600.....Good luck with the clutch
andy
02-05-2005, 05:48 PM
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getblown5.9
I do play hard. I will be going out to the drag strip again this year. I have had my clutch slip alittle out on the track, but it only slips for a second and then it hooks up and no problems after that. I do have some chatter on take off, but its not that bad. I say go for it. I am happy with my decision. I will be adding more hp in the near future and we will see how the clutch will handle it. I am punishing it and if it goes its my own fault.
Stomp
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03-01-2005, 06:22 AM
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600 Megawatts, I don't appreciate being called a liar. I had the same clutch from TST you have I told everyone my experience with it that is all. I resurfaced the flywheel and installed it properly. If you don't think that ceramic clutch won't chatter pulling a load you've lost your mind! From reading your post you don't use your truck anyway so you might get by using that cheap clutch. I think you are a high strung loud mouth just looking to spout off. I just hate you telling these people that actually use their trucks for what they are made for that a ceramic clutch is the thing to get. I can understand you're upset you got burned on a cheap clutch but suck it up and admit it don't try to trash everybody else. I'm done with you good bye.
03-01-2005, 08:07 AM
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What do you mean about being upset for getting burned on a cheap clutch??? I am perfectly happy with my clutch. Its a brand new clutch plate, pressure plate, throughout bearing and pilot bushing sold by the largest clutch company in the world.... cheap, NO.. inexpensive compared to others out there... YES..
I am not the only one quite happy with this clutch.. re-read the post...
As for not using my truck, I pull my race trailer with it which weighs about 13,000 Lbs. Havent pulled it yet with the new clutch since I dont race in the winter. Maybe it will chatter under those conditions. I will find out in another two months. Maybe in your case, 32,000 Lbs is too heavy a load to start out on a grade or back up with a ceramic clutch smoothly. That is a lot of weight for a dodge ram to be pulling indeed, and a softer engaging organic clutch might be better for smooth starts with this type of weight. I conceed this much and apologize for what you took as me calling you a liar.
Kevin
I am not the only one quite happy with this clutch.. re-read the post...
As for not using my truck, I pull my race trailer with it which weighs about 13,000 Lbs. Havent pulled it yet with the new clutch since I dont race in the winter. Maybe it will chatter under those conditions. I will find out in another two months. Maybe in your case, 32,000 Lbs is too heavy a load to start out on a grade or back up with a ceramic clutch smoothly. That is a lot of weight for a dodge ram to be pulling indeed, and a softer engaging organic clutch might be better for smooth starts with this type of weight. I conceed this much and apologize for what you took as me calling you a liar.
Kevin
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