AlpineRAM

Well it seems that I didn't express myself right.

I thought about flipping the exhaust manifold so that the secondaries are up a good bit,and maybe even a bit more towards the passenger side, then the primary could get it's turbine inlet close to the stock location, but also a bit more to the pass. side so that it clears the AT heat exchanger.
I'd try to use the engine mount to fix the bracket for supporting the whole shebang, you could mill about 1/2" off it and use this 1/2" to build the support from there. (with a plate that has the same holes and a little longer bolts. )
Since I do run on a single battery there is quite a bit of space for routing the intake to the primary since I'd like to rotate it so that even though it's further to the passenger side than the stocker the exhaust would be in almost the stock position.
I'll have to look into this a bit further. My motivation for running multi stage turbos would be different from the average on this board. My quest is for fuel economy and lightning spool off idle in high altitudes. (roughly 7US$/gal over here and smog ***** on every corner)

AlpineRAM

Mike Holmen

In stead of using runners, I would use a two long 2X2 square channel (it could be a different size) and mount the T03 flange on it. The air lines would be a nightmare. Tate, I tried to phone you, I picked up the coolant lines for my twins on friday. I would run the coolant lines in series and have the last line come out primary and run a 5/8in tubing up to the heater. I made up two extra lines and have extra fittings. Talk about expensive stuff. The fittings are around $30-50. I got the hydraulic shop to put 90 deg metal elbows on coolant lines so they protected abit from the heat. What you doing for the down pipe? I bought some metal and redesigned my downtube some. The 3582R is a pretty sweet turbo. I just picked one up. The turbine housing is pretty tight for twins, so I have to adjust it some and of course the coolant lines are a different size.

cyric

My question is wouldn't the two small secondaries cancel each other out as they tried to force air into the engine? Maybe I am missing something. Ever since this thread has started I have wanted to do this, but don't know the practicallity of it.
Joe

XLR8R

How would they cancel each other out?

12valvesmoke

i could make this whole set up in CAD if yall would like.. i have quite a few years of experience in Rhino3D

Jared

cyric

Well woudn't 2 turbos the same size moving the same amount of air push against each other? I might be wrong in my thinking. I am just trying to understand because it really intrigues me. I think I understand it would be like a parellel setup and would follow the path of least of resistance which would be into the engine. Sorry my feeble mind wasn't thinking straight
Joe

12valvesmoke

Click For Larger Image in case you didnt know that one is kinda small


I still have to add the air tubes.. i need to rotate and adust some stuff.

any suggestions or thoughts? would you like me to finish it or am i wasting my time?

Jared

Big Blue24

Both top small secondary turbos are constantly spinning even though they are bing fed off setting exhaust pulses. Constant out put by both would not cancel, just push more mass of air at the same psi. Also remember that both top secondaries are being fed by the same bottom primary so regardless of what they do, constant flow will still be pushed through them by the bottom turbo.

Mike Holmen

Your going to have to move the rear turbo forward as there is a fire wall with bunch of stuff on it. Of course you could cut that out. The rear turbo might have to almost be on top the other secondary. You have air tubes to pipe in as well. You could run the primary behind the transmission and run one of the secondary where the primary typically sits in twins set-up. It would work then. Ceramic coat everything and wrap the exhaust tubes. Man that area would be hot even to melt anything, if you actually got the system together. The best set-up is 12 turbos. Each cylinder fed with two turbos. No lag.

HOHN

Joe, in a sense you are correct. Pressure acts equally in all directions.

So when you have 30psi of boost, that pressure is pushing back against the turbo just as hard as it is pushing against the engine. The difference is that the engine actually relieves some of the restriction by ingesting air.

So when each of the small turbos is pumping air, it's really no different than when a single turbo would be pumping as well. With a single turbo your boost pressure is pushing back against the turbo as hard is it's pushing air into the engine. With dual turbos, the pressure is pushing back against two turbos, not just one.

So there's no significant difference between a single or dual secondary setup in that regard. One thing to note is the importance of balancing the workload of the secondaries. The secondaries will only generate the pressure of the weaker of the two turbos. If one secondary is trying to make 3:1PR, and the other is 2:1 PR, then the total output of the two will be the 2:1PR of the weaker turbo. The extra PR effort of the 3:1 charger leaks down to the lower charger. They "lean on" each other for support. Think of it like this way: if you are trying to push a car on an icy road, you will never be able to push the car harder than you can push against the road (traction) or instead of you pushing the car forward, the car will push you backwards on the slick road.

So the pressure from one of the secondaries can never push harder on the engine than it can push against the other secondary. Air pressure always seeks the path of least resistance for relief.

Justin

Mike Holmen

That only way it would cancel out each other is that you had a bad engine. Broken valves, flat camshaft, pistons no sealing, leaky exhaust seals on the other turbo, etc. Other than that if the turbos are sized the same and all your cylinders are close to being equal in condition, the boosted air will go out the discharge into the primary turbo. Air travels to least potenial energy, highest pressure flows from the highest to the lowest, which is the primary pulling the discharge of the secondary turbo.

afoulk

Awesome job 12valvesmoke! Only other thing I might add is that each exh. runner only uses 2 bolts each to bolt to the head, not 4 like you have pictured there.

Number47

my recommendation is to curl the primary up high, almost like its sitting where the stock airfilter box is, or just slightly behind it. i'm gonna go take a couple pic with a sheet of paper to give us a idea of space constrats

12valvesmoke

ok ill put the primary up top where the air filter used to be.. i did the air piping today but man it looks retarded.. im embarrassed to put it on here haha

Ill redo it tomorow with Number47 suggestions and make the exhaust manifold only have two bolts... picky picky person haha

Jared

Number47

http://s199.photobucket.com/albums/a...turbo%20space/

i used an 8 1/2 by 11 sheet of paper. the CTD to be is going to be sans(no) A/C