Ok I am getting sick and tired of all the axle wrap on the stock suspension on my monster and I would also like to be able to keep a pair of tires on the rear. I already have a limited slip differential in mind and will be doing that soon.

What I would like to know is this, what would be the dimensions for a set of ladder bars for a RC-LB? Where abouts would they be anchored on the frame? I am currently working on a custom dual race exit exhaust and need to know how far back I can push things with also leaving room for a set of ladder bars.

Also, I was just wondering the specific advantages ladder bars have over the other two. I already know how to put together some cheap traction bars or a pinion snubber, but I would like to get more finite control over all that axle wrap.

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.

 

In my opinion, ladder bars on the street are not too good. If welded on rigidly they can cause a serious binding of the rear suspension. Essentially you make a platform out of the bars and rear end that can be loaded on one side only. This can cause a twisting action on the housing. It can bend it. I narrow rear ends on occasion and have found housing with ladderbars that I can't get the line up bar into before I even start.

There is one mfg that makes a traction bar that mounts on the top of the housing and above the spring perch. It has rubber bushings on both ends. It looks good and under $200. It doesn't look like it would hold up to serious pulling but for towing and street it looks good.

http://www.suspensionconnection.com/...con/30997.html

The pinion snubber worked for the Dodge guys for several years in early drag racing days.

Here are a couple other links for you. Calvert is a good one.

http://www.calvertracing.com/info/info.htm
http://store.anninengineering.com/

 

Ok just another thought that a buddy brought up that I should have thought of earlier... What about a four link system? What would be the pit falls there? That would also allow for zero uncontrolled axle wrap would it not? What about suspension bind? I would assume near none since it is so popular with the off road crowd.

Thanks for the opinions and PM's guys

 

Why's it gotta be pm's ? I'd like to hear some recommendations for a rwd.

 

Just thanking everyone for the replies and the PM that was sent. It was just some helpful website information. And I know what you mean by that too, I wish I knew the secrets to getting one of these monsters to hook up off the line without 4x4 and/or posi. I just know for sure that the stock suspension isn't helping us 2wd guys out at all; especially with all that torque.

Would like to hear if anyone has tried a four link suspension though. Since I know that they are required at many circle tracks and are popular in many other motor sports due to their superb axle wrap control without any hindrance to suspension travel. I am also considering air suspension in the rear to replace my leaf springs all together.

 

The best for the money setup I have seen for a 2nd gen dodge is a set that Diesel Darryl makes. They are complete bolt on and use 2 bars total.

 

I've been looking at buying a set of bars for quite some time. Just haven't found the right ones yet or someone willing to follow through with their manufacturing of them besides tuff country and the like.

 

I have a set of greg long's traction bars. Just a heavy pipe 40 some inches long with heims at each end. one end mounts under the the axel to the U bolt studs, the other end on the bottom of the frame you drill some holes for the bolts. Nice setup. Stop the wrap and stoped the rear end from danceing around when you go over big bumps/pot holes. I havnt had it running all winter but I was hopeing to see when your in the snow in 2wd if it would stop the wheel hop when you slip there too.

and alot of people PM because this site can be a bit rediculous about what you can and cant post. Or if there telling you a price on something, and where they got it.

 

If you want to go to a true 4 link it's possible. A lot of work. You will get rid of the leaf springs and replace them with coils or a pair of coil overs on each side and some kind of Panhard bar. With the weigh of these trucks the coil over size may be difficult but you could use a coil spring then use a heavy coilover for "tuning." You may be able to the Firestone air bags as a primary spring too. At any rate the heavy duty coil over will provide the fine tuning, an extra inch of travel height up or down, ability to preload the chassis, and ability to stiffen or loosen the spring rate, plus adjustable dampening.

You would need some real husky link bars but 4130 tubing is available as are tube ends and rod ends that would hold up to this. After all the pro drag guys use this and have more hp and sometimes more torque than our trucks do. You would need the adjustable brackets for the front attaching points. These would have to be a bit heavier than the standard drag car ones but again 4130 material is available.

You would also have to possible convert the sway bar to an adjustable one so you can control body roll. Not a real problem other than it will have to be custom made.

Next comes the set up. There at least 2 major software programs available that can help in the initial set up and record keeping. I have another that I've used that gives similar results. These all require a center of gravity and that can be tough to come up with. Most ofthe time it is started with the center of the crankshaft or cam shaft. The truck could be considerably different. This would be a variable that you would have to watch launches and make changes and record them. Part of the game however.

For drag racing I would think a true 4 link would be very helpfull especially if you use some big 16 inch rim slicks about 16 inches wide.

A standard cab would probably be the best configuration with the shorter wheel base and a narrowed housing and heavy duty axels.

As for the pullers, I really don't even have a guess. At least you would have good control of the rear end and you could make it essentially lock or bind the suspension under load and still have compliance unloaded. It would really be able to move to follow the ground yet not really "give "very much.

Overall it is an interesting concept. The drag racers were a bit slow to adopt it originally but now everone has it. and ladder bars are out.

I'd like to see it done and documented.

 

Wow Bent, that's quite a write-up there... I would like to be the one to test all those out, but I'm on a very tight budget as a disabled veteran. The one thing that I would like to know is just how that set-up would handle towing if i used coil overs and Firestone bags? Also, where would the coil overs go? Maybe find some dragsters with a similar set-up and post some pics?

I think I will probably go with a simple two link traction bar set up for the time being since I can manufacture those in shop for very little money. Thanks for all the help guys.

 

To answer your question. I think set up for drag racing where you get a wedge action you would not be happy towing as the ride would deterioriate. I would set the 4 bar up for parallel links in this case. The bars would be parallel to the ground or at least parallel to each other. You would have an easy going suspension with full control over the rear axel. Streetrods are often done this way and ride very nice. Parallel links work good but don't load the suspension for max tracton. They are nice though. This is the beauty of the 4 link that you can set it up to suit conditions. NASCAR uses the 4 link system.

I was under my truck today doing spring maintenance and oil change. I've wanted T-bars for a ling time as I have a tough time on wet pavement even with the car hauler. Unloaded it can really be a bear. From the outside you can clearly see the spring wrap. My old Michelins were really bad inthe rain. the new tires are much better but now can get a pretty good hop if I step on it too hard.

I rolled under the rear again and looked over what is need for some good T-bars. 4 link is out for me too. $$$. The real simple way is to use the age old "slapper" bars. A piece of strong sq or rect. tubing welded to the spring perch plate and an adjustable snubber on the forward end. You will probably have to build a wedge to angle it slightly but over all not too difficult. These will keep the wrap up down but you have to allow and inch or so travel on the snubber or it will jar you to death. If you install a loop over the spring they can help in braking too. These are still not really what is needed however. Just a cheap temporary fix.

Most guys are using a long bar with rod ends and frame brackets. It works ok and doesn't hurt the ride much. Probably rattle a bit. Not too expensive. It's awfull hard to beat this system as the frame/spring mount is just not in a good position for making bars with the right pivot geometry. Sometimes it is just easier and better to just error for the sake of simplicity and function.

If you are really on the cheap you can get some rod ends over at Fleet Farm in the hydraulic department. These are use on farm stuff for various linkages. They are really big and look pretty husky plus for their size they are dirt cheap. . I don't know how they would hold up long term as there is no provision for lubrication on the ones I saw.

show a picture of your project when you are done.

 

Truckin suspension makes a 4 link setup for $600....when I get back to making money I am going to look into it. It comes with everything except the air bags.

 

PS this is bnold not crobtex,

I just installed a set of XLR8R traction (sled pull) bars this weekend. Complete bolt on set with massively huge heims. He makes two sets a shorter set for drag racing and a longer set for pullers. Will get pictures up ASAP.


Axle wrap is ELIMINATED with these bars!! Dynoed right after the install and unlike other trucks without a traction bars my rear suspension did not wrap around into a pretzel shape. If you ever watch a truck with decent horsepower dyno, you can see the axle twist and move while under power and then when power is released the axle pops back into position. My truck doesn't move on the dyno period. Stays straight and true and puts the power to the ground not into the leafs.

On road handling character characteristics were also greatly improved, body lean is almost non existent cornering. Feels almost like driving a sports car in turns. Probably the coolest feeling in the world is to step on the fuel now and see the hood raise from the power instead of the back end squatting, really a huge noticeable difference. Price was right too so I am very, very pleased!!!

 

Brian, it was great to watch how well the bars worked under your's and Rowlands trucks on the dyno - couldn't have been a better comparison: two 2nd gens with twins making plenty of power, one a built auto with drag bars and the other a SB/5600 with the pulling bars.

Now I'm jealous because the production bars/brackets look so much nicer than my prototypes!

p.s. next time you need a copilot when you blow a boot off at 115mph and 64 psi, let me know... great fun!

Your truck pulls like my GTO

 

Again, this is BrIan, not El Presidente.

Glad you enjoyed the boot blowing off.

The bars are GREAT! I smile every time I step on the fuel or go around a corner. Thanks for the great job on the bars!