PaulDaisy

What would you guys recommend for a turbo for mostly towing, at 5-9,000 feet elevation? Truck as described in signature.
My stock HX35 is giving up the ghost and I will either buy another or upgrade. I wouldn't mind having a 4" downpipe although that would mean I'd have to get a 4" downpipe, I currently have a 3" with my 4" EB cut in.
I thought this way and that, and looks like anything larger would be good for max power, but slow spooling is not desirable.
Thanks!
-P

nascar mark

The Borg Warner S300 58/65/12 would fit your needs perfect. It has a 4" outlet and spools as fast as a hx35 but flows as much as a hx40. You will need to buy a 4" v-band clamp and 4" hx40/s300 down pipe.

PaulDaisy

The brand new Borg Warner S300 58/65/12 has arrived. I removed the old turbo, the downpipe and the intercooler connecting pipe and boots. I am facing a couple of issues.
First, the turbo had to be re-clocked as nothing faced the right direction. I loosened the clamps and turned the body and the compressor housing so that the oil lines and the intercooler hoses could be attached.
Another issue had become apparent then. The stock oil drain is bent in such a way that it interferes with the wastegate actuator on the S300. I am planning to cut off the flange end, turn it 180 deg so that the bend faces away from the wastegate actuator and use a length of high temp hose to connect the shortened drain directly to the engine block drain pipe. Does anyone see a problem with this plan?
Secondly, the compressor outlet is shorter by about 1" than the stock one. When the output elbow is attached to it, the stock rubber boots are too short to connect to the intercooler pipe. Does anyone know of good aftermarket boots that fit in this application?
I will leave the story of Diamond Eye downpipe being 14" too short out of this thread. This downpipe is not a stock replacement, it needs an extension and a hook welded to it.
Edit: Purchased a 24" Diamond Eye extension p/n 400024 and a lap joint that I was told will work as well as a weld for connecting it to the downpipe, p/n L40AA. Also got a 4" BD exhaust brake adapter flanges, p/n 1100400 from BD. Some welding will be needed.
Question on the charge air boots remains - anyone?

Destroked F450

Are you using the stock hx35 elbow or one that came with the b/w ? You can get longer boots or lengthen the pipe, mine is in a fummins so I had to make the intercooler pipe.
For my use this turbo does a good job.

PaulDaisy

I am trying to use the stock output elbow, there wasn't one included with the new turbo. The flange on the elbow mates well with the turbo flange.
I may look for an armored large diameter hose and forego the metal pipe altogether if I can't fine suitable boots. They are not terribly cheap online and its not clear from their pictures whether or not they would fit, and buy to try gets expensive quickly if they don't.
What did you make the intercooler pipe out of? Thin walled metal?

Destroked F450

Exhaust tubing with a bead welding around it.

kawi600

be careful with the turbo oil drain, IF I remember right it has to point right down, or at a small angle. Not sure why that is, I just remember reading it in a couple different turbo discussions so Id verify this before you run it.
I know on my S362 theres no fit issue.. but the wastegate faces down and towards the shock tower and does get real close.

There are also turbo spool valves that restrict one volute until the boost pressure comes up. Might be worth looking at. Not sure what this does to drive pressures but it would help response on the low end. Most people using these are putting them on much larger turbos. You may get some weird looks asking about one for a S300.

gorms

Just curious... Where did you source the 58mm S300?

PaulDaisy

Well, my project turned pretty sour
First off, the Diamond Eye lap joints do not perform as advertised and leak like a sieve when the exhaust brake is turned on. The joints should be welded. If I weld them I wonder if the 5-foot 4" pipe will fit into place either through the top or bottom.
Secondly, when the E-brake is applied the S300 leaks pressure from under the wastegate cover. I called BW tech support - awesome knowledgeable person - and he said, S300 is not designed for turbo brake applications. The wastegate cover is not designed to hold pressure at those levels. The bearings are not designed to hold axial loads. Basically it is a wrong turbo
I should have called around before jumping in with both feet, or just gone on with a stock replacement. Would cost me 1/4 and I would have a working truck.
Don't repeat my mistake.

P.S. I don't think I am allowed to post a link here to a non sponsor. Google "S300 58/65/12" and the very first link will take you to the place I bought it from. But if you need one I think there will, sadly, soon be one in the classifieds.

gorms

I definetly do not know for sure, but I haven't heard of any issues with any s300 not being designed for exhaust brake.

For the exhaust issue, weld a flange in at the bottom of the down pipe once you get it figured out, or run flared joints with bands on them.

PaulDaisy

Here is what I was told: the S300 does not have the proper thrust bearings to withstand axial loads generated by exhaust brake. That said, it does not mean it will immediately break or blow up. It will be subject to higher than design wear and tear. The engineer told me it will hold up still better than the stock turbo, since it is stronger overall and has larger shaft and bearings.
Properly built turbos in the S300 class are available from Industrial Injection. They incorporate the s300 or, better, s330 bearing set and a 270, or by customer request, a 360 degree thrust bearings. That makes a fully EB qualified turbo that will outlast the regular S300.
For my case: I took the truck to a local muffler shop. They welded up the downpipe with the extension, and the EB flange with the down pipe. They cut off the 3" post-EB section and the resonator, attached the EB rear flange and welded in place a piece of 3.5" pipe connected directly to the muffler. There is no resonator now, and I think the exhaust got just a tad louder and throaty but not too bad.
At this point I am left with three small leaks when the EB is activated: at the wastegate cover, at the turbo flange V-band (I also read that flat faced flanges are not the original Borg Warner, they are third party aftermarket; WB ones are conical and do not leak), and at the EB V-clamp. I think that I need to replace the V-clamps and that would help with the leaks, and working on finding hi temp gasket material (like Percy's XX Carbon Gasket Sheets 68006, need to find specs for it), like expanded copper or carbon, to put under the wastegate cover.
I will update the thread when I get it done.

PaulDaisy

Update.
I kept the S300. I took off the wastgate cover (can be done with the turbo in place). Traced out the cover and cut out a duplicate cover from steel, this is to double up the thin wastgate cover and make it stiffer. I had to also cut out a 3/4" hole in that doubler to allow the bump in the original cover protrude.
Installed this contraption with Percy's high temp gasket material underneath it back on the turbo. So far no leaks in that area; the leak at the 4" downpipe to turbo flange continues. That flange simply butts together and there is no provision for a seal of any sort, to the best I can tell. V-clamp tightens it enough for normal exhaust use but the E-brake 55 psi of pressure causes a hiss.
I plan to use some ceramic fiber felt or rope on that flange, wrapping it outside and then installing the V-clamp over that. The hiss is annoying.
I towed with the new turbo. At elevations from 6-9,000 feet the turbo appears to smoke a little more when upshifting going uphill than the stock turbo. Exhaust temperatures are lower by 50-100 degrees, I like that a lot. Spooling may be a little bit slower than the stock. Boost pressures are higher when it gets going, and stay higher on average than with the stock turbo - going up steady hills towards the Cameron pass I used to get 12-15 psi, up to 24 on some steeper parts but that's where EGT would hit 1,200 and I would down sift. With the S300 on the same sections I would be getting 18-20 psi with 1,100F and I would not downshift, going along in 4th gear reaching 1,200 max.
Overall I am getting used to it; I don't like the smoke and a bit more foot control is needed to avoid it. The sound is a little louder than the stock, from the lower RPM roar to the high pitch whine that I tend not to hear but my wife does.
I am keeping it. Need to finish sealing the leaky flanges and re-torque the carbon felt gasket on wastegate to make sure any settling does not loosen up the cover.

PaulDaisy

Update: three years later, the Percy's carbon gasket material burned out in 6 months, flakes came out and it resulted in the gasket becoming much thinner. As the result the turbo cover loosened up and I lost one bolt. I caught it when checking for exhaust leaks, and replaced the Percy's material with a stainless steel mesh, layered with some ceramic fiber cloth that I had on hand. That lasted another two years, then blew out. By then Mr. Gasket released real exhaust gasket material in sheets, so I bought some and that is what is under the turbo cover now. So far so good, but it had only been there for about two months.
I got replacement 4" V clamps to seal the hissing flanges. Sadly, it turned out that 4" does not mean the same for different manufacturers, and the clamps were too small for the 4" flanges and too big for the 3.5" flanges. They are still laying around, what a waste. So I got some exhaust sealant from Amazon, it is a paste in a jar that looks a lot like dirt from the side of the road, and some furnace door sealing rope in 1/8", flattened it, stuffed it into the old V-clamp, gooped it up with that exhaust mud and clamped it down. That sealed it as tight as a weld, and that adventure was over.
The turbo performance is good. It definitely spools slower than the stock one, and smokes easier on acceleration. Once at 5 psi, the smoke clears, and from then on there is pure power. The EGTs are definitely lower, and I mean, when towing 11,500 lbs: when not towing I almost never see any boost or any smoke, the truck just goes. Overall this is a good setup for towing and daily driving, but definitely not a headache-free installation.

bigdav160

Thanks for the update

HOHN

Sounds like the slight benefit of the replacement turbo came it significant cost and hassle.

And people wonder why I stuck with the stock turbo.