We could pretty much sum up this thread and close it down as long as everyone agrees that we should burn all copies of the Consititution and all ammendments.

I like my 4th ammendment right, not sure about the rest of you.

Ever notice how the White House willl jump all over things that personally interest THEM?

1)Jeb needed a hand a while back, next thing you know we had to fly Congress back in for a special session to try and save a woman's life in Florida? Get real, the Federal Government is WAAAAAAAAY out of line. They were NEVER intended to have the power they have and apparently it is going to their head?
2) A courthouse want's to display the 10 commandments outside?

Anyone ever take note to how the COURTS weigh on these topics? I 'll tell you, they shoot them down, over and over again! Know why? Because they are there to uphold the Constitution! Thank God someone is!

Major League Baseball?? give me a freaking break. A private organization is forced to show up or Congressional hearings because the federal government is worried they aren't handling their own private business properly?
I'd still be in Jail for contempt, forget em.

 

Would burning all the copies of the constitution make it invalid?

 

Well, good question.

I suppose it would make it eaiser for our Federal government to trample our rights like they seem to like to do latley. Stupid document gets in the way all the time anyway.

Might make them feel better about it, you know, sleep well at night and all.

 

The biggest problem is our own citizens. Want to protect your nation from terrorists? Carry a gun. Think about it, if the people on those 9/11 flights had been armed how far would the terrorists have gotten? The only flight that did not make it's intended target was the one flight that had REAL Americans onboard. The kind of Americans that say "over my dead body will you do this crap!". They had the courage to fight back and take their own saftey and destiney into their own hands. They stood up and fought, they didn't wait for a nanny government to come and save them and in the process saved many lives. Yes it is true that all aboard will killed in the crash, but I ask you how would you act in that situation? Will you wait for someone to save you?

All of this TSA and multi-channel spying is a waste. What we need is the government to get out of the way of the citizens and for citizens to take their own saftey as one of their own obligations.

 

listen listen

is that discontentment with this administrations policies peeping thru ? I refuse to say "we tried to tell you"

 

You want to worry about something, worry about the courts. They are legislating from the bench, over-turning decisions decided by the voters, siding with the lobbyists, etc. etc.

Doubt that the gov't listening to me will change my life as much as a liberal judge.

 

Quote
Be careful what you say, “Big Brother” is now listening.


BIG BROTHER has been listening for longer than you think...
It is called ECHELON
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON
I have been telling people for years but nobody wants to believe me.
There here.....

I have worked in the video surveillance, "real" spy camera, bugging devices, and non-linear junction detectors world and seen some amazing devices at the ICS conventions used by the professionals for both surveillance and counter-surveillance. This was about 20 years ago before the advent of micromineaturization and you could not detect them right in front of you.
There are cameras watching you everywhere here in California, here we have the Red Light Cameras, all of the ATM's have real time cameras watching the customer and background, Cal-Trans has a sophisticated camera network. Couple this with facial recognition software and the DMV database and hummm...
http://video.dot.ca.gov/
I do not like being watched but I have MY cameras.
Here are some toys.
http://www.global-security-solutions...ovCounSurv.htm

How has everyone been.
Jim

 

a guy i know in the military, who has very few supervisors between he and the president, said it best that he trusts the current administration to not use sidestepping a warrant for wire-tapping/monitoring for political or personal gain(like clint*AHEM*ons) but there are a lot of people that could be and will be in power in the future that can't be trusted with this power; so because of the worst case scenario, we have to keep the power checks in place.

also there have been a LOT of terrorist rings operating fully inside the U.S. borders that have been taken out before they could act as a result of these monitoring events. 9/11 happened because we didn't have the right information in time and it ticks me off that people have forgotten that it was everyday people and US citizens that carried that attack out, they were guys that went to school with us.

if 'big brother' hasn't been listening yet, i'll get them to start following this thread...i was raised in a Christian home, homeschooled and i believe we should be able to bear arms. whew, that makes me sound like a right wing extremist OH NO!

i don't think an airline hi-jacking is ever going to happen again for several reasons but mainly because people were made aware that they have the power to do something, especially when the odds are 100-1 in an airline situation. i think schools and businesses are in more danger and the government should not have to be big enough to have an anti-terrorist task force in every stadium, mall and school. it's time for Americans to take on a little personal responsibility for ourselves and our neighbors. if we can't carry concealed then we really shouldn't have to wear seatbelts either. i've never talked to anyone with a CCW that WANTS to be in a situation where he has to use his concealed weapon of choice; just like none of us WANT to see if our seatbelt actually saves our life or not(in my case, mine did).

yeah there's arguments against wearing seatbelts and there are arguments against 'bad people' having guns and there are arguments against who listens to our phone conversations and internet activity. one of the main reasons we have been losing so many of our rights is not because of whoever is president at the time but because we allow the "law interpreters" to have as much power and say as they have and it seems that the constitution has little say in what is passed and allowed by congress, reguardless of political party. i don't think that the Bush administration has made every decision correctly and you're an ignorant fool if you believe that the clinton administration did.

i'm getting all worked up and i need to stop talking now. HAPPY NEW YEAR!

 

Lemme put this thought and question out there for you all to ponder ...

What would you say to allowing a terrorist organization monitor your personal phone calls and emails.... are you worried at all about that ?
It happens all the time ... just another way for them to pick up information.

If you were President .... What would you propose to do to stop this ??


As a life long citizen of the USA and a true lover of freedom, it kills me that we live in a time where we are "listened in on" by ANYONE .... them or us. I don't believe that we are as free as we would like to think we are. I also understand that in the hands of a president that I don't trust ... it is a scarey thing. I trust this one but who knows what the next one will be like.

As a member of the military and knowing what I know about how things work ... I understand the reasons behind monitoring (in the OpSec -operational security aspect). I live with the fact that every single one of my cell phone and email communications (quite possibly even this one) to my family, friends and coworkers are monitored by both the enemy and our people.

There have been several occurances right here on my base within the past year, when valuable information has leaked out by someone about something via an email to a colleague and it has scrubbed entire missions. I heard the details of one intercepted email that happened a while back and even a kid could've figured out what was going on. So yes ... I understand the need.

Now, I understand that many might feel that a persons private life as Joe Citizen is different than the roles of us here in the military ... but the attacks on 9/11 were not against the military. The info that was used to plan that attack was gained through private monitoring. .... and Joe Citizen was none the wiser to it. (But Joe Citizen sure felt like he was free until that point !!!)

I think that in the world that we live in today ... monitoring is a necessary of the two evils. Our founding fathers could never have imagined the types of espionage that threatens us in this day and age. They overcame their espionage problems by not talking about things and instead used other ways to pass info ... hanging lamps in the town steeple (One if by land, Two if by sea... remember that one ?).
We have ways to slow modern day espionage from our enemies (lock down the borders, extricate all non citizens, secure all communication outide of the country ... etc), but going to those extremes would change the entire way the US operates and therefore would not happen. This, in my opinion, passive monitoring is the least invasive of the options.

As for Ben Franklin's quote about giving up freedom for a little safety and deserving neither ... well, I've been giving up a good many of my freedoms for the past 20 years to ensure that everyone else can enjoy most of theirs... Doesn't make me any less of an American ... in fact, it has given me the opportunity to fight another day.

Not saying that I am 100% right .. just my .02 1/2 cents worth for the day.

PISTOL

 

NSA doesn't do "wiretaps". NSA is going to listen via the "birds". The MSM has taken something that's a non-issue and tried to make an issue of it. Move along folks.. Nothing to see here.

 

I agree 100%, and support the men and women who do it to protect my family and myself, as I am still free to say what I want, and live the way I want to live.

For this, my family and I have one thing to say THANK YOU, and your Family, SIR .

 

No thanks are required, sir. Although it is appreciated

I just think that we tend to make some small issues into HUGE issues and ignore the root of the problem. We, as a free country, are required to face the problems inherant to maintaining our freedom. It takes sacrifice from each and every citizen in some way, shape or form to make this work.
What kills me are those who complain about losing their civil liberties ... but never lift a finger to help maintain them. Lots of complaints ... but few if any solutions.
Your ideas, as well as mine, are every bit as important and valid as those in the gov't seats ... if one of us has the solution, let it be heard ... if not, sit down and let them do what we pay them to do.

It's still "We, the people" ... right ? Get's my goat .

Ok ... done ranting. Got on another roll and I'm not sure I am even on the same train of thought anymore, sorry .

PISTOL

 

The concept of losing our personal freedoms and ownership rights sure didn't start with this administration, politicians and lawyers and supreme court justices have been poking and picking away at the constition just like a buzzard on an abandoned kill since it was put into effect. Some members of congress have long known about these wiretaps, I wonder why it's just coming out now that the iraqis have had a successful election, anyone who can't see this is just pure playing politics is either naive, blind or ignorant.
I would bet you all would be surprised at the amount of illegal wiretaps members of congress Both rep. and dem. have made and don't tell me they don't want to find out what their political enemies are up to. besides it's not illegal for them anyway, they're congress

 

Cheif, , I posted that remark , and I think you mistook my intent.
I beleive the sacrifices made by those in service make them more, not less of an American. Past or current, all who have taken a year, or two or a career out of thier lives to stand watch on "the wall" or take up arms in service of our country have my respect and gratitude for that.
Those sacrifices of your personal liberties you refer to are made as a matter of choice. You choose to serve, and those infringments on yourself that you endure is part of the sacrifice you are making.
Franklins quote was in regards to those who are willing to give up their liberties without question or fight. All our "rights" have been paid for in the blood of others such as yourself who have served. That to me makes it VERY difficult to conceded one little bit of them without question, or at the discretion of one man regardless of who he is.The president is an elected citizen, who "serves" for a limited term. He is not all- knowing or infallible. He, by himself, doesn't have the authority or privilige of deciding which of my rights I deserve and which I do not.
I also beleive that we have the greatest form of goverment conceived to date in teh history of man. but part of what makes that goverment great is the system of checks and balances designed into it by our founding fathers. Those dont allow a single man or group within the goverment to decide what is "right" or to do as he sees fit without the consent of the nation. At least that is how I was taught that it is supposed to work.
What I find disturbing and I beleive most others do as well , Isnt realy teh monitoring, but the way the system was ignored and by-passed. There is nothing new or remarkable about wire-taps, but they have always required a court order or probable cause BECAUSE of the intrusive nature of them. It has always been a privacy/contitutionality issue in regards to recording them.
I truley beleive that under any other circumstances, we would be discussing impeachment proceddings. It is ILLEGAL. period. Proper channels exist for doing this, and we have president who didnt feel he needed to bother with them.
THAT is realy the issue here, teh circumvention of the laws of the land by the leader of our nation. His intent may be 100% pure, but that is not a justification for disregarding 200+ years of common law and constitutional precedent.

 

Above all, we must always keep our sense of humor