scary - if you mean it's american cus it's christian.

odds are your kid would, especially if there were a bunch of <insert stereotypical vegetable here> fed kids waiting in the parking lot.

 

Sounds like too simple a solution to be politically correct

 

Anyone know anything about brain washing.
Ever been in the military. They do it to all our soldiers and I understand why but it is still brain washing.
Church's brain wash people and that is why they need to continue to come back so they don't feel beaten down by those around them each day that don't believe.
In my opinion the pledge brain washes people at an early age into an allegiance with a country blindly simply because they live here. Not based on whether or not they agree or even know what our gov't is doing to alley yourself with us because we say so.
Plus did your parents ever teach you the saying garbage in garbage out. Well, in a nut shell the things we hear and say start to become part of our subconscience whether we want it to or not. So as a child subjected to plege their allegiance and to believe in a god if you don't want your kids as I don't to be forced to hear such things day in and day out shouldn't we also under this constitution be able to keep our kids from being forced to even be in the same room with this going on...

 

Sparkys got a point too.
Seems some in polotics and religon want to do things "just because that's they way their parents and grandparents did it"
Funny how we are finding out that the Catholic Church is changing some of their way's, simply BECAUSE thats the way the've always done it.......
except now everyone knows what they were up to.

Anyway. I say pledge if you want to , but no-one should feel Forced to do so, this is America right?

 

so how in the world could you let your children go to school, they spend all day brain washing children. some of it good, some of it bad. when my kids come home from school each day we usally talk about what went one. i have no problem at all telling my children when i think something is bs but not to harp on it. just go on about their business. as you all might have figured out i am not the most politically correct person in the world. i have my first amendment rights and i do use them, if it offends someone, o well. i have been offened many times in my life and i am sure there will be many more times.

 

Just an FYI, you are talking to someone who grew up in a Pentecostal Church, went to a Baptist private school and took religion class once a day. I then went to public school my last 2 years at which time I don't think we said the pledge at all but during my private school years we said it every morning.
So my comments are based on the belief that a public school is just that public and many parents have no choice but to send their kids there. As a public school I don't personally think our gov't should be forcing any and I do mean any even the one word "god" to be spoken.
I went to a private school and that was my parents choice and they wanted me to learn about god. Again, their choice...
You want to take your kid to church on Sunday, great but why should everyone else have their kids forced to listen to this gov't pledge and religious babble if it is not their belief... (PUBLIC SCHOOL)

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by [B

darrenG]scary - if you mean it's american cus it's christian.

[/B]

No, I do not mean it's America because it is Christian. It is American because a person should have the right to pledge and pray for whatever he or she wants without anyone telling them otherwise.
If during a group prayer one child wants to say Ala and one wants to say God so be it.
My corn fed kids would not even think of challenging someone for expressing their individual beleif's--they would challenge someone who tryed to prevent someone from expressing their individual beliefs

 

feed 'em more corn, man! while there's still time!

 

if my "little desenter" was trying to prevent others from expessing there beleifs thru group prayer or pledge of alegence to this countys flag he would deserve to get his attitude adjusted. better in the parking lot than when he got home

 

Jesus take me now! I agree with Herb.

 

i hate to admit it but i agree with him also, this is going to hurt

 

I agree on this one so far..... now wait until we see what party that judge is associated with.....

 

i agree based on the facts of the constitution that "God" should not be used. its your own right to religion or no religion.

BUT,
if we were to still recite the pledge but withholding the word "God" (as a result of these lawsuits) then wouldn't that mean the religious individuals are being forced to recite a pledge that is atheist in nature? adopting a pledge against THEIR religious right?

seems to be a no win situation according to the facts of the constitution. which ever activist side has the most push/publicity seems to be the winner.

how can you be against something that does not exist in your mind? if i said cows dont exist, what could i hold against a cow? why should i feel offended if an individual talks about a cow or cows in front of me? i shouldnt because to me they dont exist and i dont know what a cow is. stand in the middle of a foreign speaking crowd, how offended do you get? you shouldnt because none of it makes sense. but put "God" in place of "cows" and wow...
a religion (generalization) focuses in on their own god/gods and denies existance of other religions' god/gods and an atheist denies existance of god/gods, so when someone outside their community speaks to them about what doesnt exist in their mind, how can they become offended?


i do my best to look at both sides of the situation and at really wierd scenarios that include cows...

 

I’ve been carrying some change in my pocket and now its burning a hole, so here is my $0.02 worth on the issue. I only do it in the spirit of sharing view points and opinions, in respect to everyone else’s, and not as a way to dispute anything, even if I may sound contrarian to something already expressed. Now that I am done with the disclaimer a few points on what I base my standing:
a. I am a regular church goer, out of faith not show.
b. I swore allegiance to this country when I became a citizen and I MEANT IT.

By far and large, and unfortunately, way to many of our school children graduate high school without the ability to string together a coherent sentence, or learn to count to the extent of being able to make change at the fast food store where they end up working. Sadly to them reciting the pledge on a daily basis, becomes meaningless whether God is included or excluded. It gets turned into a routine that is mindlessly followed, and at the same time its meaning and importance is diluted and even cheapened.
We are already a divided society, and the debate over this and similar issues only further widens the chasm between the sides. I am not siding with the man who is bringing the suit. On the contrary, I think he is living proof that one can be “educated” and remain stupid (he is a lawyer and an MD). What is pure knowledge worth in it does not rest on a moral foundation?
He is at fault, I think because by challenging the status quo he is contributing to the division.
On the other hand I ask: Is it at all possible that we want to see the pledge recited, and prayers said, because we are seeing our kids slipping into a world without values, decency, honor, and sense of duty and responsibility, and now we are grasping at straws? Or is it possible that some people must wear their faith and patriotism on their shirt sleeves? Or perhaps in some of us it [faith, patriotism] has gotten so weak that it must be constantly reinforced? I always felt that faith, honor, patriotism, and intellect are best reflected by actions rather than public proclamations. Ask yourselves or someone you know who served in combat or had to put their lives at risk for their country or community, if they did it as a result of learning a prayer or the pledge, or the result of deep feelings developed as they grew up and were instilled in them, in most cases, by loving parents and caring communities. All this is not to say that public affirmation of patriotism is not good, on the contrary, but only when it has meaning and felt by those who affirm it.
I think schools first and foremost should teach our kids what it means to be patriotic, why it is important, along with the sense of responsibility, honor, and care. Preferably complementing the same values their parents give them. Having done that, the school should also be able to provide both opportunity and space for the kids to express patriotism, faith, beliefs or anything else, without imposing it, sponsoring it or impeding it.

I do not think that reciting the pledge can brain wash you, as it is suggested in one of the posts. If we as a society and as parents fulfill our duties to not raise stupid kids, they can not be brain washed. Also, it is allegiance to our country not our government, in case of disagreement with current leadership, and we as a country a far greater that any politician. Do not forget, it is us who put them there.

 

I don't really care one way or the other. I'm not one to want to stop folks from doing what they want to do as long as it does no harm to others. When we say the pledge, I say "under God". When someone says grace at the table, I'll say amen. I don't like fanatics on either side of the issue. If you're religious, pray your heart out right next to me. I don't mind a bit. Just don't go nuts with it to the point it causes public disturbance. That goes for any activity you wish to perform in public. It's just common sense and courtesy.
As far as the pledge goes. It's a pledge to our country, not to our God. What was wrong with the way it was origionally written? Like I said, I don't really care but, which side made the first change to it and why? If "under God" is taken out, I'll say the pledge without it and won't be offended that way either.
Fanatical religious folks and fanatical atheist folks really need to get a life. That don't mean "my" life. A life of their own...