This post will probally go unread like most of my posts, but please feel free to tear me apart on this post(how often do you get that invitation), I was going to post it on the thread about jumping fuel costs but as I typed I got way off topic and decided to just start a new more relevant thread.

Disclaimer: I am no expert in the fuel markets or the global economy and am most likely way off in my statements and also am trying to push the extreem cases, so take them with a grain of salt please.


First off, I may be way off but the main problem with fuel is that it is a commodity, not a plain and simple manufactured product. If the crude was collected, refined and sold by the same company with only a few compainies selling fuel, it would be like any other business. It would be subject to competition, always striving to be more customer orientated ect.. But since its not we get screwed so all the investors can make profits so large I will never be able to know the feeling of their wealth. If anyone can explain how crued being a commodity is a good thing, please do let me know. I really see NO positives about it.

Second, I firmly believe that the only way this county and most of the globe for that matter is not going to fall into a very serious recession if not all out depression is if the gov't(s) step(s) in and places some regulation on ALL forms of energy supplies (natural gas, gasoline, diesel, electricity, propane, methane and all the others). This though will never happen because it goes aganst the overall philosophy of our country and many others and too many people would loose their millions and billions in income. I also know that this regulation move would move our govt and others closer to a communistic type regime(or some other unpleasant political system that i'm not totally familiar with)... but a balance must occur somewhere for the economic success of any society.

Finally, Am I fairly depressed about the future being that I'm only 25 and hopefully have a long life to live? Yes. Does it eat at me every day? No. But if you really look around at political and economic events occuring around the world... you will quickly see that the picture is very dark. With that said events like Katrina, other natural disasters, global conflicts, political strife, and most other negative news worthy events will continue to occur with increasing frequency. With out intellegent intervention the world will quickly begin to loose all the gains made in quality of life since the move from an agricultural society through the industrial revolution to the industrilized world we know today.

But on a positive note, You just have to take life as it comes, I know I do.

Nowforthebeatingstocommence...

 

Well the first problem is that you have fallen for the lies that we are about to lose all of our energy resources. We haven't even barely tapped into the available supplies yet. Even oil, which the world would like you to believe is about to run out, has hardly been touched. We have better ways of finding oil where we could never find it before, more efficient ways of retrieving it, and better distribution systems. But if everyone knew that, then nobody would stand for paying the prices we do for oil. And you mention limiting the use of our energy. That is already done...by price. When the supplies are in more demand, the price goes up, limiting how much is used.

Next, we have the ability to help ourselves out of our current problem right now, by using our available resources in the middle east. We are in control of Iraq. We should be drilling and sending oil home to pay for our expenses over there. Every other time in history that we took over other nations, we took necessary resources. Every other country does the same thing. Do you think if Iraq took control of the U.S. that they wouldn't send OUR resources home?

Last, why should WE be the ones who limit using OUR resources, when many of them aren't even used by US? Much of the wood that is cut on our soil is shipped to other countrys. A large amount of our oil is shipped out. Have you seen on the news a while back that a company in China was attempting to buy one of our large oil companys? (I think it was Unical...not sure...) What do you think they would do with the oil? You don't think it would all stay HERE, do you?

Don't worry, I'm not arguing with you...you just made some interesting points that I felt like discussing.

Jim

 

NHDiesel,

Re-reading my own post, I wasn't pushing the regulation issue in terms of running out of resources. That would be another, probally very hotly contested thread... I was really unclear that I meant it from a standpoint of controlling inflation and cost of living.

Take this steriotypical senario....

I see you're from New England, and take a minute to think about not if you know, but how many people you know that will have to make very serious sacrifices this year just to attempt to stay warm with the cost of home heating oil (aka Diesel). I live in a urban area (New Britain, CT) and all though I personally will get by(heat the house with wood pellet stove) I know many elderly and low income households that if heating oil prices spike like they probally will... even with gov't assistance programs.... the thermostats will maybe get set at 58-60 degrees and even then its going to break the bank.

Now taking just that one aspect in to consideration, how do you think that is going to affect their spending on other goods and services?

Its just now that the general public is seeing the very direct connection between energy costs and the economy.

And, thanks for the good points, it wasn't arguing it was good discussion... exactly what I was hoping for.


Mike

 

Well, I'm in the same basic boat as you Mike. I have worked and watched my industry deteriorate and collaspe around me. Almost all of the major companies have went into Chapter 11. I got laid off once. But I knew it was coming so 30 min before I found out I was laid off I had a job. I was lucky. I work in commercial aviation. I have spent a great deal of time thinking about the possiblity of this leading to the next GREAT DEPRESSION.

Well, I have come to the conclusion that I am as strong as my ansestors and I will either live through it or not. I WILL do the best I can regardless. I am fortunate that my Dad saw fit to train me in his industry. He also encourged me to follow all of my dreams. Because of this I have a great variety of abilities that I will use however I have to in order to take care of my family. But, until it gets to that point I will drive my truck, do my job, live life. There is not a lot I can do to fix it. It is people over reaction to fear the causes it.

Randy

 

Part of living is dealing with the world that is given us. Life is an adventure, and
I think it was Tolkien who wrote" ...some times adventures are wet, nasty things...."

Our old folks say that everything that happens has a reason and a purpose. I like to beleive that is true.

 

It's very difficult to regulate something thats publicly traded on a open market. So what if the government steps in a sets the price. And the oil companies can barely break even on the set price. They will just sent the products to other countries that's willing to buy it at high prices. So that will leave us with shortages and no fuel.
A good test case will be Hawaii since they just passed regulations to set a maximum limit on fuel prices.

MikeyB

 

Everything is a commodity, or made of several commodities. Did you have a slice of bread today? Wheat. How about a glass of orange juice? Pork bellies? Did you put sugar in your coffee? The lumber you house is made of, the copper wire in your house, the metals in your truck, etc. etc. I am sure you get the point. The way I see it, the difference is that while most of the commodities mentioned, or traded for that matter, are produced by several independent producers, who compete with each other for market share and customers, oil is NOT. Well most of it is not at this time. In the Arab world it is controlled by those in power, people who are not interested in anything else but their power. Profits are no longer a factor because they are filthy rich already, but the power they exert over the world is “priceless.” It is so intoxicating that they do not realize that when power is exerted like that for too long it backfires sooner or later. It can backfire in a physical way, or just plain obsolescence. Ever wonder what the Arab world will do when the civilized world will no longer depend on oil? Either become more fanatical and backwards, or return to camel caravans, I guess. Unfortunately we, the west, are not much help now because our lack of discipline. We do like our BIG vehicles, we do love to go places, etc. etc. and as such exert very little pressure on the producers, be they our friends the Saudis, or Venezuela. We just air our discontent, or in the case of Venezuela call for the assassination of their leader.

Now as far as regulation by government is concerned, the way I see it: show me one area where it has truly worked and I’ll be for it. The best regulator is the free market, and even though supporters of government regulation say that the regulation is meant to level the playing field thus making the free market really fair, since we can not regulate the Arabs, I say do not try it. I am in favor of incentives for building refineries though.